19821115 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.15.19

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Svāmī on November 15, 1982, at Nepal. The class begins with a reading from the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, 3rd Canto, Chapter 15, Verse 19.

Although flowering plants like the mandāra, kunda, kurabaka, utpala, campaka, arṇa, punnāga, nāgakeśara, bakula, lily and pārijāta are full of transcendental fragrance, they are still conscious of the austerities performed by tulasī, for tulasī is given special preference by the Lord, who garlands Himself with tulasī leaves.

Purport: The importance of tulasī leaves is very clearly mentioned here. Tulasī plants and their leaves are very important in devotional service. Devotees are recommended to water the tulasī tree every day and collect the leaves to worship the Lord. One time an atheistic svāmī remarked, “What is the use of watering the tulasī plant? It is better to water eggplant. By watering the eggplant one can get some fruits, but what is the use of watering the tulasī?” These foolish creatures, [Aside: No Prabhupāda doesn’t say human being are creatures. (devotees laughing)] … unacquainted with devotional service, sometimes play havoc with the education of people in general. The most important thing about the spiritual world is that there is no envy among the devotees there. This is true even among the flowers, which are all conscious of the greatness of tulasī. In the Vaikuṇṭha world entered by the four Kumāras, even the birds and flowers are conscious of service to the Lord.

Thus end the Purport of Text 19, Chapter 15, Canto 3.

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim
yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande śrī-guruṁ dīna-tāraṇam

Bhaktivedanta Purports of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the matter of the “Description of the Kingdom of God.”

Jayapatākā Swami: So, we are all members of the International Society for… Krishna Consciousness. That means we are to be conscious of Kṛṣṇa. So, in the spiritual world, even the birds and the flowers are conscious of service to the Lord, you see. But, here, in the society for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we must also be conscious of service to the Lord. This actually the purpose for being here is to become conscious of serving the Lord. When even the plants and the flowers in the spiritual world are conscious, you see, we can understand that this conscious of Kṛṣṇa is not something material. It is something completely spiritual, and it is something which we must achieve if we want to actually get to Kṛṣṇa, if we want to actually become situated in our original natural condition of eternal happiness and bliss… excuse me, eternal knowledge and bliss. So, remember so many times Śrīla Prabhupāda, he was instructing different devotees on practical aspects of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And simply due to being unconscious, due to not being conscious of service to Kṛṣṇa, they would mess up the service. They would make it a complete failure. So, we can understand that the activities that a devotee does during the day, whether it’s sweeping the floor, or whether its, cooking or whether its preaching, is not to be done just mechanically, but it’s supposed to be done with full consciousness of the service to the Lord. When we’re sweeping, we’re thinking how to do our service properly. How to get every last piece of dirt because we want to please the Lord. Not that we’re, “Oh, this service is not important. Let me just do this service very quickly and…”, we’re thinking of something else. No. Everything we’re doing, we should be fully conscious of the service to Kṛṣṇa, you see, how we are directly trying to please guru and Kṛṣṇa. The plants, they’re conscious, “Oh, Tulasī-devī is a greater devotee. She is got more favor from Kṛṣṇa”, you see. In material world, if someone is greater, then everyone wants to reduce that person’s power, wants to pull him down, you see. This is the nature of the material world. Nobody can tolerate someone being greater, but in the spiritual world, there’s not a tinge of envy. They’re conscious that, “Oh, Tulasī-devī has done greater austerity. She has greater qualities; therefore, the Lord is preferring her.” They’re not envious. They’re trying to do their service to Kṛṣṇa. If someone is doing better, they’re learning from that. Similarly, in the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, the only way that we can achieve full success is by also completely eradicating every last tinge of envy from the Society, because envy is something which does not exist in the spiritual world. So, therefore, in a spiritual society, there must also be no envy. Because envy is something which does not exist in the spiritual world. So, therefore, in a spiritual society, there must also be no envy. Envy taking shape, any form of intolerance about another devotee achieving some more recognition, or better type of, ability to serve, or better type of, ability to serve, is not to be the cause of envy, rather it should be the cause of admiration, or the cause of so many favorable sentiments, you see. Envy is something which is completely the opposite of all spiritual sentiments. Just like you can engage everything, kāma - lust, you can engage in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Krodha, greed, sometimes people are very greedy to get all type of things for Kṛṣṇa’s service. Kāma, krodha, lobha… krodha rather is the anger. Sometimes, Hanumān was angry to see Sītā was being offended, you see. Sometimes, even in Dvārakā, there is some anger, Satyabhāmā became angry but that was, how to satisfy the Lord, better. So, in this way, there are different moods in devotional service, but… and they can all be engaged in the service of the Lord. But, this particular thing, envy, to bring the other person down, that is not a desired, because that, how will that please Kṛṣṇa? Rather, how to please Kṛṣṇa more through service, that is the practical idea. If someone is able to please Kṛṣṇa more, you know that, Kṛṣṇa appreciates anyone who appreciates His devotee. So by appreciating that devotee, you’re serving Kṛṣṇa. How is it a service to envy someone? So, here we see that, the most important thing about the spiritual world is that there is no envy among the devotees there. Right from the flowers, up to the very, gopīs and other devotees. Even Rādhārāṇī, we can understand that she is very eager to serve Kṛṣṇa. Even she will bring any other, gopī to Kṛṣṇa. She is not anxious to only take Kṛṣṇa for herself. Whatever will please Kṛṣṇa more.

Anyway, these topics are very exalted topics, but we should understand that in the spiritual world, there is nothing to do with the material viewpoint. Material viewpoint is something altogether different. There, one is conscious of the bodily needs. One is conscious of the mental needs. One is conscious of everything except for serving Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura said that in this material world, there is nothing missing. Everything is there for our sense gratification, you see. But the real thing that’s missing is service to Kṛṣṇa. So, when people are conscious that, “Yes, I should serve Kṛṣṇa.” If you say serve Kṛṣṇa, the atheists will say, “Why serve Kṛṣṇa? Who is Kṛṣṇa? How do I know there is Kṛṣṇa? Why should I serve Kṛṣṇa? What will I get out of serving?” These so many questions they’ll bring up. Because they don’t have any understanding of who they are. They have no understanding who is Kṛṣṇa? They have no consciousness about the importance and the necessity of serving Kṛṣṇa. That’s why they’re rascals, you see. That’s why they’re most unfortunate. So, this human society is being misdirected by such so-called… by such rascals in the dress of, of saintly people, just to destroy any consciousness they have of service to Kṛṣṇa. And the devotees, what they institute immediately is consciousness of service to Kṛṣṇa. Everyone should be conscious that we should serve Kṛṣṇa, you see. Because this consciousness of serving Kṛṣṇa is so powerful, even in contemporary religions, their consciousness of serving God is not so strong as the consciousness of God supplying the needs to us. “Oh, Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy Name, Give us this day, our daily bread. Give us what we want”. Or like in Durgā-puja, “dhanam-deya, pratiṣṭhā-deya, śriyam-deya, pūjam-deya - give me money, give me wealth, give me power, give me beauty, give me, give…” The consciousness of, “Give me, serve me God, serve me, God, serve me with this, serve me with that, serve me with this, serve me with that.” you see, we want God to serve us. That’s ordinary religion. But here, this Bhāgavatam is a completely different creation. Here, the jīva understands, “I am nitya Kṛṣṇa-dāsa - jīvera ‘svarūpa’ haya — kṛṣṇera ‘nitya-dāsa’. I am the eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa - gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ” And to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is the culmination, that is the apex This is what we should be hankering for, to simply serve Kṛṣṇa. Because serving Kṛṣṇa itself is the most intimate and the most confidential realization which includes everything else.

If you serve Kṛṣṇa, you’re so close to Kṛṣṇa, that you can see everything from the highest transcendental viewpoint, you see. You want to see what’s going on in the kingdom. No one knows better than of all the background things that are controlling the kingdom, than the king himself, because he has got his spies, he has got his intelligence going, the common man, he has got his people in the government, he has got people, everywhere. His management ability, if he is a, if he is a well-placed king is going to be all-pervasive. So, anyone close to him also will have the very good perspective on what is actually happening, you see. And everyone knows that that’s the most powerful position. So, similarly, to be the servant of Kṛṣṇa, that is the most exalted position. It’s not an ordinary thing, you see. So, anyone who is intelligent, they know there is no use in envying the trusted person of the Lord. Because if you do that, simply it means that you are untrustworthy, that you are not qualified to come into the intimate circle. That means you must have some ulterior motive. Because a truly trusted person is only going to act on the interest of the Lord. And you want some other interest, therefore, you are, you are angry at him. If your interest is also the Lords, you are very happy that, “Oh, such a good person is serving the Lord. Now, finally, some, nice service can be done to the Lord.” Because interest is one. Therefore, you also become admitted, “Alright. You’re also in the intimate circle.” So, this service to Kṛṣṇa is actually the most confidential secret. It’s not even revealed in most of the religions of the world. It’s only hinted that we should love God. What does love mean? To render Him service, you see. Rendering service is so important. So, what service we can offer God? What service we can offer? Of course, He has everything. But, He is so kind that although He has everything, He accepts even a simple offering from His devotee. We can begin by offering a tulasī leaf in a glass of water. Patraṁ, puṣpaṁ. Patraṁ means, what? That’s the leaf. The leaf is tulasī leaf. Toyaṁ. You offer tulasī leaf in water, and the Lord, He will accept that. (coughs) patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. These simple things, the first thing, patraṁ, that leaf, that’s a tulasī leaf. If we offer that to Kṛṣṇa, we can please Him, if we offer with devotion. That’s Kṛṣṇa’s magnanimity. That’s His greatness, that although He is in the most exalted position. He has nothing to fear. He cannot be impeached. He cannot be dethroned. He cannot be in any way challenged. If someone wants to oppose Him, He just puts them in the material world, and lets him fight with His material energy. There’s no, there’s no problem for Him, you see. He could stay aloof. He is aloof, at the same time, He not in a condescending mood, but in a mood of, love and reciprocation, He agrees to accept the offering of His devotees. You see, that’s why Kṛṣṇa’s so wonderful. When one hears about the wonderful qualities of Kṛṣṇa, then naturally, one wants to serve such a great person. Everyone wants to serve such a great person except for the demons, and atheists, and the envious people who want themselves to be glorified, and want to serve themselves, and who have all type of misconceptions about the truth. So, therefore, we preach Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Because if they actually understand who they are, if they have real knowledge, then they can give up this false position, they can give up their envious position.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us a simple process of serving, beginning from chanting and hearing. That chanting and hearing, by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra - hare kṛṣṇa, hare kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa, hare hare / hare rāma, hare rāma, rāma rāma, hare hare - it’s very easy to develop, [Aside: Hare Kṛṣṇa to a devotee], to develop our spontaneous awakening into Kṛṣṇa consciousness. to develop our spontaneous awakening into Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Here we see that in the spiritual world, everyone is already awakened. That even the flowers, they are conscious. The birds are conscious. In the material world, everyone is unconscious of their relationship with the Lord. They’re very conscious about, or maybe depending on their guṇa, the guṇas or qualities of nature, they are relatively more conscious, or less conscious. And their consciousness is diverted either in mode of goodness to helping others, to magnamy… magnanimity, peace truthfulness, cleanliness. They are very conscious of being clean. They may be very conscious of telling the truth. They may be very conscious of being religious. They may be very conscious of things like that. That’s all in the mode of goodness. And a person in the mode of passion is very conscious of getting his profit. Very conscious of getting the pleasure, and the things that he wants. That that person wants out of every situation, out of accumulating more and more, out of defeating any enemies. These are all in the mode of passion. And the mode of ignorance, there, one is very unconscious, or the consciousness is diverted into, frivolous things, into…, intoxication, into, sleep, into, madness, but even in all these three, of these three, naturally the mode of goodness is, more elevated. But even there, it’s not that nece… necessarily there is consciousness of service to the Lord. That is why even the material mode of goodness is not good enough to take one to the spiritual world. Therefore, whether one is relatively good, passionate or ignorant, the necessity of awakening the original consciousness of our relationship with the Lord, of our service with the Lord, is essential. So, because Lord Caitanya’s movement is purely on this transcendental platform, therefore He can awaken anyone, whether they’re in the mode of goodness, passion or ignorance. Normal varṇāśrama understanding, this, Hindu understanding because they don’t know about the service to the Lord, they’re not conscious. Therefore, they think that, well whatever quality a person is born in, because they see that it normally stays, staying the same, say that’s a fixed thing. They have this very rigid conception of the caste system. Therefore, they think that, well whatever quality a person is born in, because they see that it normally stays, staying the same, say that’s a fixed thing. They have this very rigid conception of the caste system. Of course, even in material life, it is seen that, some, kṣatriya, some kingly people like, Viśvāmitra, he was born as an, as an administrator, he was born as a… in a… in the caste of kṣatriyas. Kṣatriya mean the warrior caste, but he wanted to become a brāhmaṇa. He wanted to become a sage, a ṛṣi. So, he did great tapasya. And by doing tapasya, he was gradually elevated up to the platform of being a brāhmaṇa. Then, he became from a brāhmaṇa he became a ṛṣi. Then he became a mahaṛṣi. Then he became a brahmaṛṣi. So, finally when he achieved the stage of brahmaṛṣi, and he was able to control matter with his mystic powers. He was able to do amazing things, he had previous birth recollection, he could see the future, so many things he achieved by being a brahmaṛṣi, could travel to different planets, he could create things, he had all the mystic powers. he could create things, he had all the mystic powers. At that time, Vasiṣṭa, who was the guru of Rāmacandra, who was, right from the beginning, he was born a Brāhmaṇa, and there was always some… he was a brahmaṛṣi… before that, and there was always some… he was a brahmaṛṣi… before that, there was some rivalry, because Viśvāmitra always wanted to prove himself that he was as good as Vasiṣṭa, but he had never come up to that level of being a brahmaṛṣi. He was always on the lower stage. So finally, when he got the blessing from Brahmā, to become a brahmaṛṣi, then Vasiṣṭa congratulated him that, “Yes. Alright, so you’re a brahmaṛṣi, but this is not the top.” Said, “What?! I’m a ṛṣi! I’m the top!” Says, “No. I’m also a brahmaṛṣi. I know. Now you have finally become a brahmaṛṣi. I can see that you’ve achieved that level of consciousness. You’ve achieved that power, but we are not the top level. Top… One far far greater than us are the pure servitors of the Lord, of Viṣṇu, of Kṛṣṇa. Because even we are brahmaṛṣis, still our power is within this material world, and their power goes beyond into the spiritual dimension.” Viśvāmitra was, he was taken a… taken aback by that. He didn’t understand how its… “I’d worked all along to become a brahmaṛṣi. Now there is something greater than that?” you see. That’s also mentioned that when one achieves even the Brahman realization, from there, you can go into spiritual, into actual pure devotional service. brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati/ samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54] After realizing Brahman, then it’s possible for them to go into pure devotional service.

So, normally, a person would go through all the different yogas, would achieve full realization, become completely freed from all sinful reactions, become elevated to the spiritual platform. And then, from that platform, could enter actually to serve the Lord. Because how can one serve the Lord, unless one is completely pure? So, this is the special facility that Caitanya Mahāprabhu has… has given and that Kṛṣṇa Himself gave to some extent when He was there, that if one directly surrenders to the Lord, even though one hasn’t gone through all those other step by step by step by step, austerities and penances to come up to the level of liberation, that simply by surrendering unto the Lord, one can achieve that, level of devotional service. And if surrendering unto the Lord is difficult, that Lord Caitanya has made very easy that even without surrendering, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa’s name is so sweet, as I mentioned yesterday, that one gradually develops a taste for that chanting, starts to relish it, and by relishing Kṛṣṇa, the desire to go to Kṛṣṇa and to serve Kṛṣṇa in … finds its place in the heart. It’s already there in the heart, it’s uncovered, and then it’s very easy for one to come up to the perfectional platform. So, in the spiritual world, everyone is conscious of their service to the Lord, and in the material world, we lack that consciousness. So, the uncovering of that original consciousness, where we see that, the perfection of life is to be in the service of the Lord, that has to be awakened. In the Vaikuṇṭha-lokas, they are… this taste for serving the Lord is so strong, not only amongst the flowers, and amongst the bees, and amongst birds, and amongst all the other residents, even there, the humans, those not the humans, no one is a human, per se, but those having the humanlike form, the original form from which the human being form are made, the residents of the Vaikuṇṭha-lokas, even they’re there, husband and wife are together, even they’re engaging in their service to Kṛṣṇa is so relableish. Their service to Nārāyaṇa is so ecstatic that even there, there is hugging or kissing, that the desire to have, sex never even comes in the heart. They’re already so satisfied that that desire is not at all existing, and all the concomitant difficulties that come from what we see in the material world as a gross sex-life, that is not even there. Therefore, there is no need for birth. And there is no material sex-life means there is no birth. No birth means there is no death. Everyone is existing eternally, in transcendental full knowledge and bliss. So, of course these things are very difficult for understanding. But everything is there in the spiritual world, but it is there in a perfect form. So, for the purpose of creating a material world, so that those souls who are fallen from the spiritual world, so, so many facilities have been given to ensure that, there is a future generations so more souls that are coming can get a place to ensure that, things are maintained just like for eating, if we didn’t… food didn’t taste good, why would we eat? Poison generally speaking doesn’t taste good. Things that are rotten, bad, they don’t taste good. Things that are very juicy, very healthy for us, they taste good. So, in this way, we, eat because maybe an ordinary person is eating because it tastes good, but actually we need to eat for our body. It’s essential, so it just happens that nature has… Kṛṣṇa has arranged things so nicely that good things also taste good. Ordinary people, they’ll eat because it gives sense gratification, but that also maintain the body, otherwise how people will, maintain? When we feel pain, just like we cut ourselves, it hurts. If we didn’t feel that pain, just like there’s a certain, bleeders, what do you call them? Bluebloods or something? Devotee: Hemophiliac. Hemophiliac, they cut themselves, they don’t know it. They’ll be walking along, they’ll be bleeding to death. They don’t feel pain. Their nervous system has that defect. So, when they cut themselves, if they don’t see, if someone doesn’t tell them, or if they don’t see the actual blood coming, they can just just die, just by bleeding. They won’t know. So, it’s essential that we also feel pain. how will we know that, would something is amiss in our body. Would something is amiss in our body. Just like the, big jumbo jets, when they are taking off, they have all so many emergency systems. Little lights go on and off, and then there is something, just we are going to take off, and, the plane took off and then, the pilot, was told that, “Your cargo door is open.” So, then they had to dump all of the fuel, and then circle around and land, because the cargo door was open, they couldn’t go across the Atlantic. Because one little switch in the plane didn’t record, didn’t work, it became defective. So, like that, in our body, we have so many psychic, so many mental, so many physical warning systems. And, if we’re conscious of those, the best warning system is ultimately the Supersoul in our heart. He tells us. That’s known to… sometimes it’s called as the conscience, tells us when we should do something. He tells when we shouldn’t do something, but we’re not tuned into the Supersoul in conditional life. So, even though, He may tell us, “Do this. Don’t do that. It’s for your welfare.” We’ll do it, anyway against the advice, or we won’t do it even though we’re advised to due to leth… laziness, due to lethargy, due to attachment, due to envy. That’s why in material life, one has to have a spiritual master, because by the guidance of a spiritual master, he is reconfirming what we are already hearing from within. When one first hears from the spiritual master, it won’t be that what he’s speaking is completely new. But it’ll be almost as if we’d heard these things as some type of intrinsic truth that we can understand very easily, and we get even a confirmation from inside that, “Yes, this makes sense.”, you see. Because the Supersoul and the guru, the spiritual master are non-different. The Supersoul is working from within as caitya-guru, or as the guru, of the conscience, of the consciousness, and the spiritual master is working from outside to give external guidance. So, the two are to be considered as one. Although of course the guru is in the mood as servant of Kṛṣṇa, and in fact he is the servant of Kṛṣṇa, but for the disciple, they see that directly Kṛṣṇa is helping me in the form of guru. So, from within and without, then the, candidate for liberation is guided until full consciousness of service of Kṛṣṇa is developed. At that time, then the relationship with the spiritual master is there, but then it becomes much more of on a friendly level. While before that, it is more on a formal service, reverential level. In the spiritual sky, then even the spiritual master is, introducing one into the direct services of Kṛṣṇa, which are not possible until one is completely free from all material conceptions.

So here, the four Kumāras they are already Brahman-realized. They’ve already realized the, Absolute Truth in the impersonal form. This is beyond the conception of nirvāṇa. This is going that… they can see their soul and they can see the spiritual light of which the soul is a part, but they have no direct realization of Kṛṣṇa yet. So, they had the desire to go and see the Vaikuṇṭha worlds. So, they went from the light and they went to the Vaikuṇṭha planet, and now they’re going into the Vaikuṇṭha planet, and this is what they’re seeing. They’re seeing that even the flowers, they’re all conscious. That they’re conscious entities. The flowers, they’re seeing how the flowers are conscious, and they can see that how the flowers themselves are respecting the tulasī plant as a more elevated amongst them, and that how they’re engaging in service. They’re seeing that the king of bees hums in a high pitch. They sing the glories of the Lord, and there is a temporary lull in the noise of the pigeon, the cuckoo, the crane, the cakravāka, the swan, the parrot, the partridge and the peacock. Such transcendental birds stop their own singing simply to hear the glories of the Lord. While one’s singing, the others stop to listen. “Oh, what is that bird’s glorification?” In other words, here, maybe the birds are just singing some song, but there, the birds, they know the language. They’re actually singing the glories of the Lord. And so, if one… here again, there’s no envy. One bird is singing, “Alright”, others will listen. Then when he stops, another one. All singing the glories of the Lord. These are the descriptions. When the Kumāras came for the first time into the Vaikuṇṭha planets, they were seeing, “In the Vaikuṇṭha planets the inhabitants fly in their airplanes, accompanied by their wives and consorts, and eternally sing of the character and activities of the Lord, which are always devoid of all inauspicious qualities. While singing the glories of the Lord, they deride even the presence of the blossoming mādhavī flowers, which are fragrant and laden with honey.” Vaimānikāḥ, flying in the airplanes. So, this is Sanksrit. Vaimānikāḥ, it’s written over 5,000 years ago. It’s not, science-fiction, you see. Maybe they thought that, who was it, Frank Lloyd Wright, or whoever, was the first one to invent, or fly or someone… Who was the first one?

Devotee: Wilbert and Orrville Wright

Jayapatākā Swami: Orville Wright, and then Frank Lloyd Wright’s the one that flew across.

Devotee: No, Frank Lloyd Wright’s an architect, from Wisconsin.

Jayapatākā Swami: Oh, who’s the one who flew across the…

Devotee: Lindberg. (Lindberg, Lindberg yes.)

Jayapatākā Swami: Frank Lloyd Wright’s the architect (laughing), so Orville Wright, the first one to invent the airplane, but actually the airplane had existed even in the… eternally, it’s in the spiritual planets. People fly around in airplanes. Even in the higher planets. It’s just that here… of course now you can… get airplanes that run on petroleum, and liquefied hydrogen, and things like that. But there, they are different types of airplanes, but nonetheless there are airplanes. So, it appears from this verse..., Prabhupāda said, “That the Vaikuṇṭha planets are full of all opulences. There are airplanes in which the inhabitants travel in the spiritual sky with their sweethearts. There is a breeze carrying the fragrance of blossoming flowers, and this breeze is so nice, and it also carries the honey of the flowers. The inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭha, however, are so interested in glorifying the Lord that they do not like the disturbance of such a nice breeze while they are chanting the Lord's glories. In other words, they are pure devotees. They consider glorification of the Lord more important than their own sense gratification. In the Vaikuṇṭha planets there is no question of sense gratification. To smell the fragrance of a blossoming flower is certainly very nice, but it is simply for sense gratification. The inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭha give first preference to the service of the Lord, not their own sense gratification. Serving the Lord in transcendental love yields such transcendental pleasure that, in comparison, sense gratification is counted as insignificant.” So, there are many descriptions of great souls who have left the material world. The four Kumāras were born in the material world. They left the material world. They saw the higher planetary system. They saw the impersonal Brahman. They went into the spiritual world. And these descriptions have been recorded, here. So, there are many descriptions of great souls who have left the material world. The four Kumāras were born in the material world. They left the material world. They saw the higher planetary system. They saw the impersonal brahman. They went into the spiritual world. And these descriptions have been recorded, here. They went into the spiritual world. And these descriptions have been recorded, here. The four Kumāras have a whole disciplic succession of, they… they came back, and they initiated gurus, and they described these things. And, these descriptions are also of different spiritual masters, and different … who have achieved these realizations, and they’ve been handed down. And of course, one may be able to say, “Well, how do I know that it’s like this.” May just want to doubt. Of course, there’s no way that anyone’s going to be able to say, what is beyond this universe. You can’t even say what’s really on the… on the Pluto, or on uranium, or some of the other… Uranus, or whatever the other planets are, in the universe. in the universe. One can’t even say what’s on them. The material scientists are still trying to figure out what’s on Jupiter, what’s on… Jupiter has all the rings?

Devotee: Saturn.

Jayapatākā Swami: Saturn has the rings. They don’t know exactly what the rings are made out of. Now they’ve been hearing, from Saturn, they’ve been hearing music. (devotees laughing) And they don’t know really, what’s going on. They say that it’s definitely music. You can say that it has a very modulated, definite repeating type of frequencies, and it appears to be music, or some kind of like a vibration, and of course they don’t know exactly what it is. You know, because they’re all trying to figure it out from the telescopes and by sending probe satellites, and things like that, it is practically impossible really to get any clear kind of understanding. So, the mystic yogis, they would go in their spiritual form, in their spiritual bodies, and they would see the… not only this universe, but what is beyond. So obviously there is no other way of knowing what is beyond. At least, they’ve been so kind to come back and explain the basic step-by-step process that one can achieve realization of the spiritual body. And so although, you may not be able to immediately say yes or no to what they describe as the ultimate realization, but they’re taking us from point A, from the very groundwork, so we can know that, well, they describe that you go from here, you do this, and you get up to the next step. So, one does that much, one can do. Like, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. First of all, you associate with devotees, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. you, then you will come up to the next level, where you’ll become… start to become purified from so many material agitations and desires, and you’ll become gradually more fixed. You’ll become more, you develop a certain stage of steadiness. And, so then a person is going out from there, so the next stage will develop a type of ecstasy, a taste. Sure enough, that comes. Then you… one goes then you becomes attached. Then the attachment brings another form of transcendental pleasure with it, of having some feeling of very great intimacy with the Lord. And then at every stage, it tells one, from the external point, from the sideline point, from the personal ex… experience of… one will feel, as well as from subtle… subtle symptoms. How the mind will start gradually, change. How a person in advanced devotional service doesn’t waste any time. How he is always engaged in devotional service. How he can see that how the identification with Kṛṣṇa becomes more and more strong. All these things are very nicely documented, you see. So, ultimately if one follows the process, the road is already, road marked. The signs are already there. Someone who’s never gone… just like Columbus, he told everyone, “Well, I went over to America, and this is what I saw.” We don’t believe you. We didn’t see it, you know. So, then he went back again, brought over a plant, or something you see, “Look at that. This is not from here.” So, similarly they had been brought back much greater than bringing back anything else, what they have brought back from the spiritual world, is the spiritual ecstasy. As soon as one tastes even a drop of that ecstasy, immediately one knows that this is not from this world. This is out of this world, you see. This is something completely different, and so as soon as you taste, even one drop of that spiritual ecstasy, then one can understand that actually, this whole, understanding, this whole thing which is being given in the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is not from this world. Actually, these great spiritual masters have crossed beyond the material world, and they have brought back that which is not available in this material world, you see. That is the simple understanding. So, even if a person just makes a little advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this life, whether we’re able to at once achieve the spiritual planet… even if you make a little advancement, that guarantees us, for future progress, and that saves us from so many great dangers. Just like we were praying this morning that just by taking the water that is … used to bathe Kṛṣṇa, that this protects one from dying, untimely. akala-mrtyu-haranam.. what’s the verse, this one?

Devotee: akāla-mṛtyu-haraṇam sarva-vyādhi-vināśanam

Jayapatākā Swami: That it protects one from all type of diseases, things like that. So, even… from the, material standpoint… even if a person doesn’t go up to the platform of full spiritual realization, in the… in this particular lifetime, still there is so many unlimited side-benefits which of course, those side-benefits are so important for the materialists that they’ve forgotten about the ultimate benefit. In the whole Vedic culture, that the… the scriptures always tell what is the ultimate benefit, but then because people don’t generally relate with that, they give all the side-benefits. That, if you read the Bhāgavatam, in your future birth, you can get thousands of cows, you can become a great king, or you can attempt to go to the heavenly planets, you can get this thing or that. And, so, as the people became more and more materialistic, and… nowadays, they don’t… they don’t… not even thinking what’s the ultimate objective. They’re just thinking you read the Bhāgavatam so you get a good wife, or get a good husband, or so you can get long life, or you can have… they’re just… because, they’re just seeing that… those things are not the main thing. Those are side-benefits. In fact, those are not even mentioned in the Bhāgavatam. They’re mentioned generally in the other lower-level scriptures. Although some reference is sometimes given in the Bhāgavatam, but they’re not stressed to that extent because the Bhāgavatam is, directly trying to take one to the ultimate objective. But there are countless side-benefits which one automatically gets. Even if one doesn’t complete in this life, there is no loss. In fact, there are so many side-benefits and moreover, what it does is it just sets one up so that in the next life, one can take off from where you left, and again further progress. Whatever material desires are there, you get more facility to finish those. Because two ways are going to help one to get to Kṛṣṇa, quickly. One, is to have all the desires satisfied. Of course, one after another, desires are coming. But as one becomes more and more spiritually advanced, then the new desires are not coming as frequently, you see. One is already partially desiring Kṛṣṇa and partially there is so many already accumulated desires which one is not ready to give up, yet. So, as those accumulated desires, one achieves them and realizes that, “Oh, this was the one I wanted. That isn’t what I wanted, this wasn’t what I wanted.” Then more and more one is able to finally put little more energy into Kṛṣṇa. “Maybe Kṛṣṇa is really what I do want.” Then, “Well no. Let me try this.” Then again, they try that. They get that. “Oh, that wasn’t exactly. Maybe Kṛṣṇa.” Then a little more service to Kṛṣṇa along the way. And then gradually… this is a very slow process because still one is trying to enjoy the material world because of attachment, but even just by having association with Kṛṣṇa, one is protected in so many ways, and ultimately one can achieve the position… When… Kṛṣṇa won’t force Himself on anyone. You see the devotees, we’re maybe a little more obnoxious. But Kṛṣṇa’s not like that. He doesn’t force Himself on anyone. He, will only accept one back into the… His own association, when they want to really come, when they don’t have any other desire. He’ll give them every other thing first. And then when you don’t want anything else… because once you have Kṛṣṇa, then there’s nothing else. When you realize Kṛṣṇa, you realize that everything is within Kṛṣṇa. So, then there’s no possibility of dual vision, of that type of duality of something that’s completely separate, from a relation with Kṛṣṇa. So, it’s either everything is related with Kṛṣṇa in service, and anything which is out of the service of Kṛṣṇa, then you have to be in material consciousness. Anyway, that is a subtle point, But, one way or another, Kṛṣṇa, He allows one any other desire, first. One gets special mercy one lets… one has a desire that, “Kṛṣṇa You please, whether I have another desire or not, somehow or another, You simply drag me to You.” Unless one somehow or another amidst that type of… many devotees of Lord Caitanya pray like that, “That even though I’m so fallen, You please just drag me. You just give me Your mercy. It will take me a long time to get rid of everything. You just flood me with the ecstasy of pure transcendence. And then automatically, I’ll become immune from all these lower attractions”. So, that is the special rapid, mercy that Lord Caitanya and Nityānanda give. That they give immediately that nectar from the spiritual world, which is so attractive that if one even tastes a little drop of it, then immediately the whole perspective of life changes. And one becomes immunized from so many material attachments, from so many material problems. And the more that one is able to relish that transcendental happiness, then one becomes absorbed in the spiritual ecstasy, and achieves full Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Are there any questions? Yes. Yes.

Devotee: What is the difference between the Māyāvādī and Brahmavādi? Those Kumāras were Brahman realized. What’s the difference between them and Māyāvādīs?

Jayapatākā Swami: Well, the four Kumāras had already realized the Brahman. The Māyāvādīs may… may have not realized the Brahman, but they’re speculating on what Brahman is, what māyā is. They want to become brahmavādis. But in doing so, they make so many misconceptions. The four Kumāras, they had no preconceived conceptions. Even like Buddha, he never said, “Well, there is no God.” He said, “Why you bring up this thing? I know what I know and, so that’s enough. You don’t need to ask about more.” Just avoided the whole subject. The four Kumāras, they’re not offensive. You see, Māyāvādīs, they not only want to realize brahman, but they’re actually against Kṛṣṇa. The four Kumāras are not against Kṛṣṇa. They were just not at all… it wasn’t something that they were really concerned with. They didn’t understand Kṛṣṇa. Then there wasn’t something that was … how do you say… a preoccupation with them. They weren’t at all preoccupied. They were preoccupied with Brahman. Just like, there are many people in the material world who are preoccupied with, material life. They’re not against Kṛṣṇa. They’re just preoccupied with material life.

Devotee: Can we… can we offer tulasī directly to the guru and what… on behalf to the guru, or only to… only to the Deity of Kṛṣṇa?

Jayapatākā Swami: That’s the… Of course, things you offer to the guru with the understanding that he’s going to offer them to Kṛṣṇa. Or if someone offers to guru that he is… is actually the external manifestation of Kṛṣṇa. But, when we worship, we put the tulasī in the hand or the head of the guru, and at the feet of Kṛṣṇa only.

Devotee: What about the service?…

Jayapatākā Swami: Devotional service, śravaṇaṁ, kīrtanaṁ, smaraṇaṁ, that is, you know, that person is very dear to the holy name, so an offense to that person will be an offense to the holy name. like hearing… you… when you mentioned service and immediately stated the instance of offering something like water with tulasī to Kṛṣṇa. What about just hearing about, Kṛṣṇa, is that enough service? Is that itself enough to elevate? It was enough for Parīkṣit. It was enough. If you just hear, and don’t do anything other nonsense or don’t… just hearing is enough. Just like all he did was to hear. Non-stop he heard for 7 days, and then he left his body.

Devotee: That seems to be an easy service, anyone can engage in.

Jayapatākā Swami: Easy? Yeah, he didn’t eat or drink. He just served, or just heard. (to lady guest) How are you feeling?

Lady guest: Okay. I coughed.

Jayapatākā Swami: Any questions, today?

Lady guest: Oh, yes, I do. Yesterday you mentioned offenses while chanting, can you explain?

Jayapatākā Swami: There are ten different offenses to the holy name. You wanted to know each of the offenses?

Lady guest: Is it?

Jayapatākā Swami: I can say it short, but, the… basically, the ten offenses to the holy name: The first one is to offend any devotee, that means to blaspheme or cause some physical harm to a devotee, or a pure Vaiṣṇava, who has dedicated, his life for the preaching of the glories of the holy name. Of that… that is, you know, that person is very dear to the holy name, so an offense to that person will be an offense to the holy name. Then the second offense is, to consider chanting any other name of some demigod like Śiva, or Brahma, or Durgā, or Indra or something to be on an equal level as Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa’s name. When chanting a name of a demigod, that may be there, certain mantras are there for chanting the names of demigods. And you’ll get some material benefit from that. Even mystic powers may be achieved by certain demigods. But, even Lord Śiva himself said, “no one else can give liberation, except for Viṣṇu.” So, if one considers that another name is equal with Viṣṇu’s name, that’s, that’s the second offense. Third offense is to disobey the order of, the spiritual master. If the spiritual master gives one, an order or… and one doesn’t follow that, that’s an offense. The fourth offense is to blaspheme any scriptures, or literatures which, glorify the holy name, or expound the glories of the holy name. One shouldn’t disrespect those. The fifth is to give some kind of, mental, some concocted, meaning to the chanting. That, there are descriptions of the chanting, what is the chanting. But just like… like Allen Ginsberg, he was saying that, “Well, this chanting… by chanting it seems to regulate the breath. So, it’s actually a form of prāṇāyāma.” It was completely just a speculation. So, that’s like the fifth offense. To try to put your own idea, rather than just take whatever the authorized version is. The sixth offense is to, think that the glories of the holy name… I may… the fifth and sixth I get backwards sometimes, sorry. I don’t know if I did that, this time, or not. But the, the sixth… they’re both very close. The sixth, is to, consider the glories of the holy name as an imagination. In other words, there are so many glories of the holy name, and then someone thinks, “Oh, that’s… I… How is that possible, something like that?” That’s, one type of offense. Then, the seventh is, offense is to sin on the strength of chanting. You see, the offense and sin are two different things. Sin just means bad karma. In other words, everything we do, there is a reaction, in the material world. So those reactions, if we take the responsibility, then it’s in… that’s the freedom we’re given, that we can act in the material world. And, we can do pious activity, and get pious reactions, or we can do,, all sinful activ… or activity which harms others, or which hurts our body, and then we have to accept the pain or suffering which would have come from that. Now, when someone understands that by chanting, I can get rid of, I can neutralize the effect of karma, it’s one of the secrets of chanting. So, then if a person makes like, a… a conscious plot that, “I… well, it’s alright for me to do this, and then I’ll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and then I won’t have to suffer for it.” Then, that’s an offense. there are so many glories of the holy name, and then someone thinks, “Oh, that’s… I… How is that possible, something like that?” That’s, one type of offense. Then, the seventh is, offense is to sin on the strength of chanting. You see, the offense and sin are two different things. Sin just means bad karma. In other words, everything we do, there is a reaction, in the material world. So those reactions, if we take the responsibility, then it’s in… that’s the freedom we’re given, that we can act in the material world. And, we can do pious activity, and get pious reactions, or we can do,, all sinful activ… or activity which harms others, or which hurts our body, and then we have to accept the pain or suffering which would have come from that. Now, when someone understands that by chanting, I can get rid of, I can neutralize the effect of karma, it’s one of the secrets of chanting. So, then if a person makes like, a… a conscious plot that, “I… well, it’s alright for me to do this, and then I’ll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and then I won’t have to suffer for it.” Then, that’s an offense. Because Kṛṣṇa’s name and Kṛṣṇa are non-different. He is intelligent, so, … most intelligent, so obviously He is not going to be so foolish that, a person can do that. If one… one may do, some activity within the field of karma, and still chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that’s not, that’s not the same, that’s not that offense. The, conscious, idea to kind of exploit chanting is, considered offensive. If one still takes responsibility for what one does, not asking that, “Well by chanting, I’ll… just by chanting that somehow or other, I can come above all the karma, and that’s not offensive. That’s sincere. Eighth offense is to consider the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa as equal with a pious activity. Just like, the Buddhists, they’re trying to always accrue ka… merit, means good karma. They feed the monks, they do so many pious works to get merit, or to get punya, as they would say in the Sanskrit, to get good karma. So someone thinks that, “Well, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is another form of good karma.”, that’s an offense. Because chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is far beyond good or bad karma. It’s actually a complete spiritual vibration, which, can not only, give good karma, but it can do a lot more than that. So, it’s like a, understatement. It’s like, if, if you… there was a very… a great person… like if you called a king… “You’re one of the nicest ministers I’ve ever met.” Or something, it would be the greatest offense, I mean, for… understatment… So, then, the, that’s not the greatest offense. I don’t… the worst offenses of all, so far I’ve mentioned are the… to offend the devotee who has dedicated his life to cha… to preaching, and to sin on the strength of chanting. These two are very, are very serious. The first one is the most serious. And of course the greatest devotee is the guru, so if one offends the guru, that’s of course a… not very good either. Offending the guru and disobeying the guru are two different offenses. So, then, the ninth offense is to preach to the, to the unfaithful. To say the glories of the holy name, that… two of the offenses here… were mentioned were, about… that if one doubts the, description of the holy name, or if one sins on the strength of chanting, things like that, so then if one is… who doesn’t have really any faith in Kṛṣṇa, is explained too much about the holy name, then sometimes, they may prematurely say, because they haven’t really come up to that level of philosophical or spiritual realization, they may commit that one offense that, “Well, how can that be possible?” So, in this sense, the preacher is a little bit responsible for having told that person who wasn’t really ready to hear all the esoteric understandings about the holy name. That risk preachers take, all the time. There is some code lines given as separate instruction for preachers, what to do, what to do. Then the tenth offense is to be inattentive while chanting. Meaning that, more and more as one learns about the holy name and as one even is, able to experience different realizations from chanting, if still one is not very attentive to chant, not very serious about chanting, then because it’s coming… it’s, neglecting a lot of special favors that Kṛṣṇa has given, that the holy name has given, just due to being lazy or lethargic or in general, it’s a type… it’s an offensive mentality. That offense, practically everyone is more or less guilty of until one is completely, pure. So, in the beginning stage… these are offenses. There is a difference between karma and offenses. Because, an offense is directly related with Kṛṣṇa. Just like, well, anyway I don’t… Can you understand the difference between offense and karma?

Lady guest: Yeah… I…

Jayapatākā Swami: That, just like, say one of you go out and get a ticket for speeding. So as a result of that, you know, cause a lot of problem, but it’s not… it’s not going to destroy, generally speaking the relationship between two people. It’s just that… “Why had you do that?” You have to suffer, because of getting the ticket yourself. But, something directly… directly like, doing something which directly is, (loud sustained sound) hurting a person. Hare Kṛṣṇa. That’s an offense. So, karma is not directly related with Kṛṣṇa; that goes on automatically. But the offenses, service and offenses, these things are directly related. So, that’s why, no matter whether a person has got very bad karma, but if he, that person does some service to Kṛṣṇa, that service can just penetrate through all the karmas, and can uplift the person. So, the only thing that could, stop that, service of Kṛṣṇa from acting is offenses, which are the … doing something directly which is… which is painful for Kṛṣṇa. So, it’s saying that… sometimes people say, “Well, it’s dangerous. So, then I… better not to chant, because then… I’ll be committing offenses”. It’s said that there are three stages. The offensive stage, where we, reduce the offenses, and one gets completely offenseless. And that because Kṛṣṇa’s so kind. Just like a small baby, commits so many offenses to the parents. Maybe he yells at them or argues or sits and cries and does so many things, or maybe throws something on the floor, but because it’s still better to be offensive. Because at least there is the relation like the baby and child, that some relationship is there. And that way, gradually from there, one can… one can, come forward. It’s better to be, chanting even if it’s offensive, than not to be chanting at all. Although, better than that, is to reduce the offenses, and then to come to offenseless chanting is almost impossible by our own endeavor. All we can do is come up to where we reduce the offenses and from there, to… to achieve offenseless chanting, that means we’ve already achieved complete realization of Kṛṣṇa. And from that stage, you can’t fall down. So, that’s… that’s the perfection actually of offenseless chanting. Yes?!

Devotee: So, what if one is chanting offenselessly, but then he commits an offense, like if one sits with his back to the Deity, that’s listed as an offense. I was just doing it myself. Of course, I chant offensively. But Suppose... What is the weight of the Deity offenses in relation to the nāma-aparādhas?

Jayapatākā Swami: How complicated? (devotees laugh) That’s why the holy name is more merciful than ...

Devotee: Than any other process.

Jayapatākā Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: I understand.

Jayapatākā Swami: We should just try to do whatever we can. As much as we can in Kṛṣṇa’s service. Try to avoid the offenses. That’s why it’s said it’s better not to read too many books. If you don’t know about… If you don’t know about, an offense, even though it’s an offense when you do it, but you’re not as responsible. (Devotee’s laughing)

Lady guest: Ignorance is bliss.

Jayapatākā Swami: Not fully, but … just like you were saying, “Well, sitting with the back to the Deity, but you’re not with your back to the Deity because that system is there that from Prabhupāda to the Deity, we keep one line, so we’re all sitting and basically, that… we’re sitting with our side to the Deity. That system is there, but then if one just reads that one little, “Oh, back to the Deity. I wasn’t facing…” You know. That way, we just follow the instructions of the spiritual master, then if we do that, then he is responsible. If there is any offense, then he is responsible, as long as we are acting in the call of duty. Just like, in the army, if the soldier is told to do something and he does it, then he is not held responsible. Whether it’s right or wrong, it’s just whoever gave the order is responsible.