20080101 Bhagavad-gītā 7.3. in Melbourne, Australia

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami Mahārāja on January 1^st, 2008 in Melbourne, Australia. The class begins with the reading from Bhagavad-gītā 7.3.

Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevaya!

nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya
naraṁ caiva narottamam
devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsaṁ
tato jayam udīrayet

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim
yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande śrī-gurun dina tāriṇam
paramānanda-mādhavam śrī caitanya īśvaram

Hare Kṛṣṇa! Happy New Year! 2008 Christābda. This is our, still 521 years after Lord Caitanya appeared. Today we have been celebrating Gītā-jayanti sometime in December-January, Kṛṣṇa spoke Bhagavad-gītā.

Like in the seventh chapter, it mentions:

Bhagavad-gītā 7.3

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

Translation: Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

Purport: There are various grades of men, and out of many thousands, one may be sufficiently interested in transcendental realization to try to know what is the self, what is the body, and what is the Absolute Truth.

Jayapatākā Swami: How many of you would like to know what is the self, what is the body, what’s the absolute truth? That’s pretty good. So, you are already one out of thousands.

Continuation of Purport: Generally, mankind is simply engaged in the animal propensities, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating, and hardly anyone is interested in transcendental knowledge.

Jayapatākā Swami: Probably some of the people from other countries came to Australia for economic development. But at the same time, you can be very fortunate if you get your spiritual realization. So I am also active in the Middle east, where there are a lot of expatriates from South Asia and Far East Asia. And they went there for some economic development. But then they find that there is a very good sat-saṅga program, Bhakti-vṛkṣa groups and Nāma-haṭṭa groups and sat-saṅga groups and study classes. And there the life is a little not so fast. So they get a lot of opportunities to develop side by side with their economic development, their spiritual development. Recently the head of one of the yātrās there, one of the programs we were doing in the Middle East has got promoted as a vice president of one of the major corporations there. So side-by-side you do your spiritual life, and Kṛṣṇa also gives you material breaks on the other side. So, he uses his position to be able to organize nice programs. They have indoor Ratha-yātrās, here you can have outdoor Ratha-yātrā because Australia is a free place. But in the Middle East some people might be offended if we have an outdoor Ratha-yātrā. So, we do indoor Ratha-yātrā, not to offend anybody.

Continuation of purport: The first six chapters of the Gītā are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga and discrimination of the self from matter.

Jayapatākā Swami: So there’s different types of yoga, the Prabhupāda is explaining that…

Continuation of purport: However, Kṛṣṇa can be known only by persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, the spiritual light, for this is easier than understanding Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramātmā. Brahman means the impersonal effulgence and Paramātmā means the Super Soul. So, the yogīs and jñānīs are confused in their attempts to understand Kṛṣṇa. Although the greatest of the impersonalists, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, has admitted in his Gītā commentary that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his followers do not accept Kṛṣṇa as such, for it is very difficult to know Kṛṣṇa, even though he has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ / anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam.

Jayapatākā Swami: Do you know what that means? Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ means He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ – He has a form of eternal, blissful, knowledge. Anadir – He is without any origin. Ādir – He is the origin Himself. Govinda – His name is Govinda – pleases the senses, the cows and the land. Sarva-kāraṇa – He is the kāraṇam – cause of all the causes.

Continuation of purport: It is very difficult for the non-devotees to know Him. Although non-devotees declare that the path of bhakti, or devotional service, is very easy, they cannot practice it. If the path of bhakti is so easy, as the non-devotee class of men proclaim, then why do they take up the difficult path? Actually the path of bhakti is not easy. The so-called path of bhakti practiced by unauthorized persons without knowledge of bhakti may be easy, but when it is practiced factually according to the rules and regulations, the speculative scholars and philosophers fall away from the path.

Only the pure devotees can know something of the inconceivable transcendental qualities in Kṛṣṇa—His being the cause of all causes, His omnipotence and opulence, and His wealth, fame, strength, beauty, knowledge and renunciation—because Kṛṣṇa is benevolently inclined to His devotees. He is the last word in Brahman realization, and the devotees alone can realize Him as He is. Therefore it is said.

Jayapatākā Swami: It’s another Sanskrit verse. Please, if you don’t know Sanskrit, give the translation after.

ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi
na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ
sevonmukhe hi jihvādau
svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ
[Cc. Madhya 17.136]

Translation: “No one can understand Kṛṣṇa as He is by the blunt material senses. But He reveals Himself to the devotees, being pleased with them for their transcendental loving service unto Him.” (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.234)

Jayapatākā Swami: So because today is the Bhagavad-gītā’s birthday, let’s give a birthday in the sense that it was spoken 5,000 some hundred years ago. We are celebrating the birthday today, some people celebrate it on Vaikuṇṭha Ekādaśī. Today this temple celebrates it today. So, this is our time when we are giving some remembrance to the Bhagavad-gītā. How many of you read the Bhagavad-gītā? How many read it cover-to-cover and finished it? Very good. So, some of you haven’t done it yet. We were discussing earlier the New Year’s Day. People sometimes make their ‘New Year’s Resolutions’ what they want to do. So, one good thing to do is read Bhagavad-gītā. This is considered to be the cream of the Vedas. All the wisdom is condensed in this Bhagavad-gītā. So, you can read Bhagavad-gītā.

I once went into Prabhupāda’s room. Prabhupāda Bhaktivedanta Swami. No picture here of him, but his deity is seated in vyāsāsana in the temple room. And I found that he was reading Bhagavad-gītā. So I thought Bhagavad-gītā is a basic book we beginners read. Why is he reading? He said, “No! When I read Bhagavad-gītā, I get new information every time.” He is reading it dozens and dozens of times. He still reads the Bhagavad-gītā. So, we shouldn’t think that we grow out from Bhagavad-gītā. This is our basic storehouse, a treasure-house of wisdom tells us about the soul, the material world, the spiritual world, the Supreme Personality of Godhead and many important things. If we had to tell Kṛṣṇa consciousness or explain it to others, a good knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā is very important.

I met one devotee, he knew the Bhagavad-gītā by-heart. I don’t know that well, but I mean he knew the whole Bhagavad-gītā Sanskrit verses – by memory – it was quite good. Sometimes, I met many children, who know whole chapters. Any kids here who know the chapters? You know a chapter of Bhagavad-gītā? Do you know a chapter of Bhagavad-gītā? Śloka? Chapter? Which one? Which chapter you know? Now the Absolute is the seventh. Someone had their hand up over here. You know the names of the chapters? [Aside: Tissue]. The young children have memories which are very powerful, so it’s a good time to memorize the verses. Then later you can learn what they mean. Any kid wants to chant a chapter for us today? Gītā-jayanti celebration. Okay, I won’t put anybody on the spot.

So just thought today is a good day to decide to read the Bhagavad-gītā. Also, today is a good day to fix how many rounds you are going to chant. It’s good to fix a minimum, because Prabhupāda said that if someone chants 16 rounds, which is 10 million names of Kṛṣṇa in a year, they chant 16 rounds a day, then he sticks on to follow the principles.

He will take some responsibility to get them back to Kṛṣṇa. It’s not possible for everybody to immediately chant 16 rounds. But something he also said, if you can’t do 16, do some. Excuse me, fixed minimum number. Maybe 10 or 8 or 5 or 4 or whatever. How many are doing 16 here? Very good. How many have a fixed minimum? Kitty, what is your fixed minimum? Four? So, that’s 2.5 million names of Kṛṣṇa a year. You’re a multi millionaire. So like that. Everybody chant some minimum that will build up in your spiritual strength. Recurring deposit. Then actually get. Hopefully when you do more, actually get more of a taste. It’s easy to get distracted. So many things to do in the modern world. Studies, work, diversions. But somehow, if we can chant that will build up our spiritual strength so that eventually we can cash in on that.

I remember when I first joined the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement and we were told that every service we do for Kṛṣṇa; goes in Kṛṣṇa’s little bank account, the Kṛṣṇa Bank. If you have enough credit, then He will take you back to Him. We don’t know when that’s going to happen. I came all fired up. Spent twelve hours in Adelaide, Come to Melbourne for the Boxing Day festival. Spend a few days here, then go to Brisbane, then go to Sydney. Then, today I was supposed to be in the New Govardhana. But, when I arrived, I had a high fever over the flight. My leg got swollen and little meek in Malaysia. And then somehow it created an infection. So I went to see a doctor, Dr. Tony, and he said that he was serving in Vellore in South India for some years.

“So, you know, I know a little bit about Indian culture. If you don’t take care of your foot, this could mean reincarnation.” That’s a pretty heavy thing to say. So, I went into the hospital in Adelaide and Kṛṣṇa’s mercy - Okay, the things got under control. I am here still, not fully cured, but under control. So, you never know what’s going to happen. When there is a verse in the Bhāgavatam that says padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām [SB 10.14.58] at every step there is danger, so better to be prepared. It’s like a spiritual insurance policy. Keep chanting and if you actually develop a taste, then you find it’s a Supreme happiness. Sunday, I gave that Sunday lecture for the first time after I have been in the hospital. And everything was so blissful. I feel so happy to talk about Kṛṣṇa. It’s very blissful to talk about Kṛṣṇa.

So, if you can develop a taste for talking or hearing or chanting Kṛṣṇa, that’s considered to be auspicious. I don’t want to say that I have it yet fully. But that day I was feeling very happy after many days to talk about Kṛṣṇa. I like to talk and hear about Kṛṣṇa. So, you can fix up some minimum. Or if you are already doing 16, keep it up, and try to improve the quality. And if you’re not doing 16 or 6 up something without chanting at all least you can even. [Aside: Excuse me] even you can chant one round, that will add up.

There was a story about in the Padma Purāṇa, I read that Yamarāja, who is the judge for the sinful people in Yamaloka and the gateway to the hellish planets, he sent his messengers to get someone, to bring him here, it’s time for him to die and come there for a judgment. And I said he was a kṣatriya or something Singh. But the Yamadūtas couldn’t find him somehow, they looked around, looked for his address, but couldn’t find him. But the next-door neighbor had the same name. They thought maybe there was a little mix up. So they took their next door neighbor who was brāhmaṇa. But somehow he also had the name Singh. Maybe a forefather, I don’t remember it. Singh or maybe some other name. But like that, two names, same.

They took him and he was saying, “Why am I?” You know, wow, he is being dragged by these messengers of death. His body is in a coma. And he took his subtle body to Yamarāja to see what’s his next birth going to be. And then he said; he was there looking and he sees all these employees of the correctional system there for the universe. Some are half man, half animal. Some are animals, but with Intelligent looks like they look at you not like just animal, but they look, you know, they are fully intelligent, but with some with big muscular bodies and fangs. And he said, “Wow, this place is really heavy. I don’t want to be here.” And then he was dragged up on the docket. And Yamarāja looks away. He is like, he is the wrong guy. He was starting to feel a lot of relief. “He is the wrong guy. Why did you bring him?” And then, they said, “Well, we went to the house, but we couldn’t find anybody. Didn’t see anybody there. And he had the same name next door, so that maybe this one address got mixed up.” He said, “No, you see, you don’t bring people to me who don’t tell lies, who chant the name of God, who [he gave a whole criteria,] who are serving as Supreme Lord. He is a good guy. He doesn’t belong here.” He [The brāhmaṇa] said, “I never want to come down here. I am going to definitely follow all these guidelines. Chant the holy name, serve the Lord. Don’t tell anyone lies.” Then Yamarāja went into meditation. “Oh, the problem is...” that this verse, I think, was in the glories of dhātrī-phala, this āmalakī, that’s the first plant created by Brahmā.

“So this other person had put that in his house. So he was not visible to subtle entities, ghosts, Yamadūtas. Nobody can approach this plant. It’s so effulgent that it blinds them.” They don’t see anything. It’s another good thing to keep in your house. Don’t know if it was allowed. We got to ask Andrew if he is here, if it was not here. Went back. He works for the quarantine service. He tells us if it’s allowed here. Maybe in the botanical garden. So, then he was taken back to his house, and he decided that’s it, you know, “Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare.”

Okay, there is some questions. So anyway, fix a number chant Hare Kṛṣṇa; it has multiple benefits. Even if it seems mechanical in the beginning, when you do a few, it’s more mechanical. When you develop a taste after a time, it gets more nectarine but better to do. It’s a very... It’s a sacrifice, yajñānāṁ japa-yajño ’smi [Bg. 10.25] The best of all sacrifices to the japa-yajña, the sacrifice of chanting the holy names of the Lord.

Okay, this is an anonymous question. The question is, okay, tricky question.

Question: It is said in Bhagavad-gītā that one who has been in the spiritual world never comes to the material world. It doesn’t say that one who goes back to the spiritual world never comes down here again. Not to one who goes back doesn’t come here again. So, initially, how were we in the spiritual [world]? What was our condition?

Jayapatākā Swami: He is asking that. So, that we will only find out when we get back. Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, “Don’t worry about where we came from. We came from the spiritual world but don’t worry how we got in here. Because once we get back, we will remember everything. It’s like somebody was on a big ship. They had recently the big Sidney Hobart race. Maybe the sail came and whacked someone in the head. They fall off in the ocean, freezing cold water, sharks all around. Is he going to say? “Wait, I want an exact explanation. I want exactly point-by-point, second by second explanation before I get out of this shark-infested water”. Does anybody will say that? “Get me out of here!” Then later on they figure out, hear from their friends what happened? Boom, a sail came around, hit you on the head. So we don’t have to worry, how we got here, we got to worry how to get out. That’s the priority.

Question: Can one pay obeisances to the Lord after the altar doors are closed?

Jayapatākā Swami: No problem. But circumambulating is not recommended, but we don’t have a circumambulation path here anyway. What they call in India is parikramā path. That’s supposed to be where the doors open. But obeisances in the temple. You can always pay obeisances. Even you can pay obeisance in your house.

Question from Vishal: Why we live on this earth or what is the purpose of our life? Why did God give birth to us?

Jayapatākā Swami: Vishal. Who is Vishal? Okay, Vishal from New Delhi, right? You talked to me earlier. You see this material universe is created so that souls that decided they didn’t want to be with Kṛṣṇa for what or they wanted to be independent or for some reason. As I said, we don’t know exactly why. Everyone has their own individual history. This is like a prison house. And earth is actually a doorway to get back to Godhead. We go through 8,400,000 species of life. We go through plants, through fish, through insects and animals and. And birds, lizards. So many different births for the animals the last. And human being is the ultimate. So as a human being we get an opportunity to go back. So the purpose of our life as a human being is really to go back to God. Otherwise, God gives us independence to serve him or to be independent. So, if we are independent, he puts us in the material world. Then there is a kind of equal playing field, level playing field with. Everyone has a law of karma. According to how you do karmas, you do austerities, you do penances, you do different activities, you can move up in the material world. According to how you do bad karmic activities, you can move down.

So we want as a human being you can learn how this law of karma works. You can read the Bhagavad-gītā and you can get back to Godhead. That’s what we are saying, that we shouldn’t waste our valuable human form of life, which is an opportunity for us to get back to Kṛṣṇa. Will the material world ever cease to exist? The material world as the Bhagavad-gītā says, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19] It’s created, it’s destroyed, it’s created. So, sometimes the material world is dormant, it’s not manifest whether that is what you mean by cease to exist. But it’s an energy, it doesn’t get destroyed, it’s a conservation of energy. But it’s dormant, it’s brought back into the body of the Māhā-Viṣṇu and then He expands it out again. Sometimes, it’s not always manifest. Sometimes it’s manifest, sometimes it’s unmanifest.

Question: Are there a limited number of souls in the entire creation? No new souls being created as they have ever always existed?

Jayapatākā Swami: It says Kṛṣṇa is ever expanding, so He can always expand new souls. But once you are expanded, you are existing forever. Kṛṣṇa is beyond time.

Question: Why did Kṛṣṇa give us free will? Did He know we are going to abuse it?

Jayapatākā Swami: Well, the thing about free will, if there is no free will, there can be no love. Kṛṣṇa wants us to love him, wants to have loving exchange with if he doesn’t. Sometimes, you see these movies or read about them, about robots and clones. So if we are all just clones and we just robots “Love me” “I love you” like some kind of Barbie doll, you know, it wouldn’t be too exciting, would it? So, He gives us the free will and if we want to serve Him we can. And if we don’t want to, we don’t have to. And if we don’t want to serve Him, then He puts us under the material nature and there we have an opportunity to suffer and enjoy according to the laws of the material world. So we can’t really blame Kṛṣṇa if we’re enjoying or suffering if we are devotees and if we are praying to Him and we get some breaks, then we can thank Him for it. So He gives us free will so we can use it properly. So, bhakti-yoga is teaching us how to use our free will properly and how not to abuse it. So, the Bhagavad-gītā tells us what the consequences are of activities in the mode of goodness, passion and ignorance.

Question: How to live a well-balanced life while committed to different obligations? Will it be possible to maintain by most average people in a diverse society?

Jayapatākā Swami: Well, this is why our gṛhastha devotees are so important. Because the gṛhastha devotees are showing this. They are leading, they are doing their material duties, they are raising their children. Today two of our devotees got second initiation and they were being glorified at that time that they were not only doing their material activities, their spiritual activities, but they also were responsible parents and doing their material activities. So, we need that kind of role models. Advanced devotees who do their work, maintain their families. At the same time, they give some minimum time in their day for their spiritual activities as well. And to get some association with devotees like that, we have some weekly programs. Jagannātha Rāma Dāsa does one of those programs.

Those Nāma-haṭṭa and Bhakti-vṛkṣa and youth program. What time, what place, how the people here who want to participate in that can find out more. Everybody has a copy of your folk news. If they don’t, where do they get a folk news copy? You can give them one. You are the source. You can put yourself on the mailing list. You get the folk news. There are a lot of our devotees, maybe some are more expert, maybe some are a little strained, but they are trying to lead this well-balanced life, balancing our material obligations and our spiritual life. It is a part in our congregational development, our community development. We took some testimonials. Actually, yesterday I took some testimonials too. And some, they said that, “By this we learn how to lead a practice through these Bhakti-vṛkṣa meetings and the discussions.”

They learn how to lead a balanced life, how to raise their children in a spiritual environment. You want to share something? They are asking how to live a well-balanced life while committed to different obligations. Will it be possible to maintain by most average people in a diverse society? What do you think? Is it possible to maintain? You want to explain exactly how? They may not listen to me because I am a sannyāsī. “Anyway, he doesn’t know anything.” [laughter] It’s all theory for me. That’s for sure.

Devotee: So here. If it is possible to lead a balanced life balancing our material activities as well as spiritual activities. And as a practical example, I will give my own example. I work as a CS on the [inaudible]. So I start early morning around 8:00 to the office. So before going, you know, I chant sometimes all my alms or sometimes few of my alms. And then we have an altar in the house so where we, whatever we cook, we offer the burger to Deities and then we have prasāda. And then one more important aspect we as a family, we give importance to come to the temple as often as possible and do whatever service we can. So, we have put that in the center. So all festival days we come, participate in the festival activities and then lead a Kṛṣṇa Conscious life.

Jayapatākā Swami: Let’s hear from the wife. [laughter] Now, from the other side of the equation.

Devotee’s Wife: Actually, I want to tell you how everybody, while we are working still we can devote ourselves to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because every Saturday I teach children from 4:30 to 6 o’clock and after that I do these beautiful garlands for the Lord. And after that every Saturday we attend this Bhakti-vaibhava course, and they are getting lot of benefit. And every Sunday me and my Prabhu, we wake up at 3 o’clock in the morning and we head to temple at about 3:45 and at 5:00 we go into the altar and up to 10:00 we are there in the temple, attend Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam class and all the morning program which is very substantially solid for our spiritual advancement. And also on every Mondays, we attend Bhakti-vaibhava course.

And every alternate Fridays we are doing home programs where about seven families come and we are actively preaching and I put lot of effort in doing nice prasāda and feed them and they are mostly attracted to the prasāda and they feel extremely happy to come to my house and they very, they feel very happy about that. And also every time I speak to anybody over phone, it’s only preaching. I don’t speak anything other than Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā. Anything that comes to my mouth I relate directly to Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, “in this verse, Kṛṣṇa said this so and so”, because Śrīlā Prabhupāda says in one of the verse in 17^th chapter, 15^th verse,

anudvega-karaṁ vākyaṁ
satyaṁ priya-hitaṁ ca yat
svādhyāyābhyasanaṁ caiva
vāṅ-mayaṁ tapa ucyate
[Bg. 17.15]

Where he says that austerity of speech consists of speaking words that are beneficial or it’s pleasing, beneficial and not agitating to others. So and also in regularly reciting Vedic literatures. And that’s why anything I speak to anybody, something or somewhere related to Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā. So in that way, like you know, always you can think of Kṛṣṇa even while working. Actually, I am working in office, which is a stationary store. I work usually my shift is like 7:00 to 12:00 and usually 7 to 9, there’s literally nobody there. And I take my clicker, and I chant for two hours, seven to nine o’clock and after that I keep chanting Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā’s ślokas. So in that way, pretty much I feel that my life is running, so I should use that time for Kṛṣṇa and also after coming home, I clean my house, cook and offer to the Lord. And while I do cooking, I always play Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam lectures.

So in that way, like you know, I really feel very happy to do my daily chores. So like that, if you have really desire, Kṛṣṇa will give us all intelligence how we can do best in our life. So, in that way and always Kṛṣṇa has been centered in my life. And always anywhere I go, everywhere I try to connect myself to Kṛṣṇa in that way. Like my life is not getting wasted that way. So, this is what I feel that, and I also try in the temple to try my best to help everybody in whatever way I can. If it is even out of my way, I don’t mind doing as long as I take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I pray to Kṛṣṇa, so that everybody becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. By the mercy of my Jayapatākā Swami, only by his mercy I am able to do this. Thank you very much. Thank you very much Māhārāja for giving me this opportunity.

Jayapatākā Swami: Everyone finds their own balance, how to do. It depends on your work and on different factors. For some it is easier, some it is a little harder, but it’s possible to be done. It’s possible to be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Somebody asked a question here.

Question: Why Śrī Kṛṣṇa gave the message of peace to Arjuna in the battlefield? Why couldn’t he give it in a homely environment?

Jayapatākā Swami: Maybe if it was in a very peaceful environment, then it would be too easy. Wow, anybody can do it in that peaceful homely environment. It’s more dramatic that Arjuna was just at the face of the battle that all this was spoken. But we can’t really question Kṛṣṇa. Why does he do this? Why does he do that? Why didn’t he lift the Govardhana Hill with his right hand? Why didn’t he do it with his left hand? Like this?

Some paṇḍitas can go on speculating. If he tells us in scripture something, then we can know about it. Otherwise, it is difficult to just. He is independent, he doesn’t have to. He is not answerable to us, to our logic or to our reason. But what we know is that if someone can apply what Kṛṣṇa gave in a battlefield, then that’s like the worst place. People trying to kill each other, they’re violent, they’re angry, they’re passionate. If you can practice in that environment, then why not as a householder? It’s not that. Maybe the workplace is a little bit of a battlefield, but not that much. It’s not killing each other. So, it’s good in one sense that Kṛṣṇa spoke at that time. Because if you can practice it in that environment, you can practice it anywhere, no excuse. Also, Arjuna was the ideal student. So, he had to teach it to a student who would ask the right questions. Would you have asked all those questions that Arjuna asked? He was a pretty shy person, right?

Question: How many people are on the GBC?

Jayapatākā Swami: Simple question. GBC means Governing Body Commission, ISKCON. We have a governing body who oversees that small spiritual standards of the worldwide society and works on some strategies, coordination. So around 30, 35 are members. Prabhupāda said to have around 25, 30. We’ll have more or less there. Maybe there’s one or two more. I am a member of the governing body. We have deputies, and the president here, Aniruddha Prabhu is one of the Chairman of the deputies of the GBC. So, they do a lot of the groundwork in presenting things to us to decide a lot of the brain work, they pre-digest it for us. So you deal with things very quickly. So you have a very advanced president here in ISKCON in the management affairs. Okay, here’s a question, kind of two similar questions.

Question: How do I maintain a devotional service while being away from temple where most of the members are non-vegetarian and non-devotional? When should one take initiation?

Jayapatākā Swami: So, the first one is a question to Guru Mahārāja. I don’t know. In every family it’s a little bit of an adjustment how to. Obviously if the whole family is vegetarian, if they’re devotional, then it’s a very smooth sailing. If they are not so inclined, then it becomes more of a struggle. Some people have to work harder. You can have your own vegetarian pots, you can cook for yourself. You can offer to Kṛṣṇa. There was, I remember one gentleman, he wanted to take initiation. He was about 55 and his wife was maybe 48. But his wife was a principal of a high school. She said, “Look, I have been eating meat my whole life. I am not going to change now. I am an independent person. You want to do it. I am not going to do it.” But he’s, you know, they’re householders who live together. So, he had to learn how to cook his own food sometimes. Maybe a humble wife, she likes. She follows the husband, and they practice together. Sometimes more calmly. The wife wants to practice, and the husband demands to have meat. So all these things, I had one family where the husband was against Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the wife would every day pray for the husband to Kṛṣṇa. She would secretly offer the food to Kṛṣṇa and give to her husband. So after about one year, the husband’s attitude changed.

So I think Hare Kṛṣṇa is not so bad. So, I think that women have got some special śakti. If they want, they can change their husbands over some time. Even the wives of Kāliyā were praying with Kṛṣṇa to bless their husbands. But if both husband and wife are devotees, that’s ideal. That’s what we really would like. In fact, we recognize that families where the whole family is basically favorable to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Somebody’s. They’re basically vegetarian and somebody’s practicing very fully. That’s called a śraddhā-kuṭīra or a home of faith. So, I think we have here. How many families do we have here where everybody in the family is favorable to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? See, so many. You are not? Your own family is not favorable? Immediate family. Yes. So these are the kinds of tests I got all this stack of questions. Otherwise, I could go on elaborating.

When should one take initiation? In ISKCON, we have the system that first you take aspiring even when you are not done your initiative. Take your aspiring for a year or more. You can aspire for a guru, develop a relationship. Or if you are chanting six months and 16 rounds and four principles, you pass the basic test. You can take shelter. First you have to find out who you want to take initiation from and start to develop a relationship with that spiritual master. Be an aspirant or take shelter. And then when to take initiation, that’s something that kind of follows a suit. When you feel confident that you can follow that spiritual master, that you can first of all be convinced. I want to be within ISKCON community. I want to follow Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. That’s the primary thing.

So then after that you want to serve one of his representatives. You develop a relationship, and you develop faith. When you have the faith that, “if he gives me instruction, I will take it seriously. Unless it’s something obviously against the śāstra, I am not going to take it as something serious”. Some spiritual masters may be more active in their disciples’ life or some may be more like just giving aloof, but giving guidance, what to do, helping them to decide for themselves. You have to see which kind of spiritual master, how they deal with their disciples, what you want then. At some point, usually one to three years after taking shelter, one takes initiation. But it’s no hard and fast rule. Today the Sudarśana Mahājana and his wife Indu Mahājana took initiation. Now he is Sudarśana Gaurāṅga Dāsa and his wife is Indulekhā Lakṣmī Devī Dāsī.

Let’s give them a big Haribol! How long were you under shelter? [Them: More than 10 years.] [laughter] So they took their name. There is no pressure. It’s up to you when he wants to take. But usually sooner than later is better. You can ask them why they wanted to wait so long. But they wanted to be sure. Some people want to be very sure. Prabhupāda waited 11 years to take any shame. But then his some godbrother told him, “Look, I want to be perfect before I accept my spiritual master.” That the idea is to take initiation, to become perfect. If you are already perfect, then what do you need a guru for? So we take initiation when we reach a certain minimum standard. And then after that the guru helps us, refine us to come to the higher level. So that’s. You see here. Shifting gears. A new topic.

Question: Some people believe in Jesus Christ, and they reject Kṛṣṇa. Are they offending the Lord?

Jayapatākā Swami: My mother believes in Jesus Christ, and she accepts Kṛṣṇa. Maybe in the future, we have more people who believe in Jesus Christ, and they accept Kṛṣṇa as the father of Jesus. Obviously, anyone who rejects Kṛṣṇa, that’s an offense to the Lord. Maybe out of ignorance. Believing Jesus Christ said that he is the son of God. There is nothing wrong with believing in Jesus. He’s a historical personality. He preached some very wonderful things. Prabhupāda said we accept him as one of our gurus. He’s also our guru, so why not we respect him. So, the Christians also, they should know that Jesus says, “Love the Lord thy God.” We are just saying Kṛṣṇa is God. So, they say we accept God but not Kṛṣṇa becomes semantic sometime. Okay, the same person’s asking about the heading demigod.

Question: Some people strongly believe in Lord Śiva, Gaṇeśa, Durgā, what is your view about this?

We also believe in Lord Śiva, Gaṇeśa, Kālī, Durgā we believe, but we believe that they are powerful energies and powerful expansions and servants of the Lord. Śiva is an expansion of Viṣṇu. He is a śiva-tattva. He is an essential factor for the creation of the material world and the destruction of the material world. So, he is vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ [SB 12.13.16] He is known as the greatest of all the Vaiṣṇavas. He is carrying out the order of the Lord. When the Lord says destroy universes into ashes. So our view is that we should respect, we should not disrespect Lord Śiva, Gaṇeśa, Durgā or any of the devas or English translation of devas is demigods. But we should not worship them as if they were equal or independent of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. We should worship them as being devotees and assistants to Viṣṇu. So when we do our pūjā, we have Śiva deities. In fact, our Banglādesh temple in Dhaka we have Śiva, we have Kālī because it was a Śiva temple, they have given it. So, we worship Lord Jagannātha, and we offer the māhā-prasāda to Śiva and Durgā. Just like in Jagannātha Purī, Jagannātha prasāda is offered to Durgā. She likes Jagannātha prasāda. She begged for that so that she can have Nārāyaṇa prasāda. So there is another question after this which is very similar that...

Question:  My family worships Kṛṣṇa as we are all Vaiṣṇavas but they also worship some devas or demigods. So they also asked me to worship other demigods. Even since my child I also worship them. But after coming here in Melbourne, I become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So, should I stop even remembering them to become a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa?

Jayapatākā Swami: No, not at all. We can worship Kṛṣṇa first and then give them the prasāda. Worship even in the Śrī-vaiṣṇava-sampradāya, Māhāmali Māhābalipuram or Māmalapuram now they call it, they have this Perumāl temple and there are so many devas. So first they offer the pūjā to Perumāl. Then they take the lamp, and they go down to Śiva, then Durgā, Gaṇeśa and so on. So this is. We just, we don’t consider them to be greater than or equal to Kṛṣṇa. We consider them to be devotees. And if we think like that, there’s no obstacles and they also like it. So even in your pūjā room you can arrange like that. Put all the viṣṇu-tattvas on the top row and the devas in the next row are off on the side. Offer the bhoga first to Viṣṇu, then offer the prasāda to the devas. No problem.

Question: Canto 10 Kṛṣṇa expand himself 16,000 for the 16,000 queen. Please explain this expansion.

Jayapatākā Swami: So, when Kṛṣṇa would come back from the court of Ugrasena, He would come in one chariot. When He would step down from one Kṛṣṇa came out 16,000 and went into the 16,000 different palaces. And with each queen, he was having some different affairs. Some He’s playing with the children, some He’s talking to a minister. Nārada Muni went around watched and he saw that “Wow. A yogī can expand himself into 10 forms. But Kṛṣṇa did 16,000 and a yogī will only have in 10 forms, will have one consciousness, one CPU. But Kṛṣṇa is totally multitasking.” Each one is totally different. Each one is showing different emotions. With one He’s playing chess, one He is playing with the kids. Each one is something different happening, different emotions different. He said only the Supreme Lord can do like that. Then in the morning when it came time to go back to His royal duties, the 16,000 Kṛṣṇa’s all came at the same time, came to the chariot merged into one Kṛṣṇa on the chariot, went back to His royal duties with Ugrasena. Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa kī jaya!

Question: How can we become good to others in life? How can I give up self-centered thinking? How can I become good for my parents? How can I become a good human being?

Jayapatākā Swami:  Well, it’s considered that if you are a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you develop all the good qualities of the devas. So, it’s easier to try to be a devotee. And if you learn to serve Kṛṣṇa, then naturally you will give up being self-centered. And if you as a service to Kṛṣṇa, if you learn how to take care of your family, how to help them, if you feel grateful because of the help your parents gave you and you also want them to get back to Godhead. The best thing is you can help your parents to get back to Kṛṣṇa. So, for us the easy way is to try to be a better devotee. Ultimately being good, it’s a relative thing; ‘ei bhāla, ei manda’, — ei saba ‘bhrama’ [CC Antya 4.176] This is good, this is bad. This is all mental concoction. Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, sometimes what we think is good maybe good in one person’s eyes but in someone else’s vision it’s not good. But if we are good in Kṛṣṇa’s eyes, in Kṛṣṇa’s vision, then that’s absolutely good. And then from there we can then behave nicely with everyone. So Kṛṣṇa devotees develop all the qualities of a sādhu.

Question: Pusha Kunal Kiran Lal. She’s writing: Dear Guru Mahārāja, in this busy life with the children, our job, our family responsibilities, how can we cope with our spiritual progression? We need enough time for temple service, selling books and other Kṛṣṇa conscious activities. Especially if your family members don’t support.

Jayapatākā Swami: Let me get some tips from some of our senior gṛhasthas here. How they do itself. Juggling, time management. Sometimes you have to not able to do as much as we want. But how to do the minimum so that we can see our children also get back to Kṛṣṇa.

Question: Why does Kṛṣṇa appear in different forms?

Jayapatākā Swami:  Thank you for your question. Is that okay? Satisfied? We discussed it earlier. Different forms.

Question: When Kṛṣṇa appears on earth, why doesn’t He appear in the same form?

Jayapatākā Swami:  So, He can prove He is the supreme. One of the qualities of Kṛṣṇa is, He is ananta-rūpa. He has unlimited forms. So, He comes in different forms. And these forms are described in the śāstras. So, it does prove that He is the supreme because it’s all explained in the śāstras, that He comes in these forms. That’s part of His greatness. That He can come in different forms. He’s not limited to only come in one. But His form as Kṛṣṇa is the original form. So that’s also explained in that verse we read earlier.

Mr. Charan is still here?

Question: It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, seventeenth chapter, 7-10^th verses that people in the three modes of material nature are in goodness.

[Aside: The three modes of material nature. I can’t read that word here. Can you read it?]

Devotee: [Voice not clear]

Jayapatākā Swami:  Actually, prasāda is transcendental. It’s pure goodness. kṛṣṇa-prasāda. And that can free us from karmas. But fruits, vegetables and grains, milk products, these things are eaten in moderation. And when they are fresh, it’s in the mode of goodness. Things which are too salty, too pungent, too spicy. Pungent is spicy anyway. So, that may taste good in the beginning, but later on, it may create also ulcers or some indigestion or different problems that could cause some problems. And then things which are rotten, dead like meat and things which are already from a dead body and decomposing and things which have become putrid, they are in the mode of ignorance, and they tend and cause different kinds of material health problems. So, as you said, this is the yucky stuff. So, we want to eat food in the mode of goodness.

But ideally, we want to eat even more than goodness is eat prasāda. Prasāda is actually transcendental. So, prasāda is in a pure goodness.

Here, You are going to leave us? Take some prasāda, not yucky stuff. [laughter] We got them. I know you, right? What’s your name again? Nice to see you again. Tomorrow morning sometime, I will probably go to Sydney and from Sydney, I’ll go back to India. Happy New Year to you. So do we end here? How many I got here? It’s already getting late.

Līlāmayī Rādhikā, she had a question. Dear Guru Mahārāja, we will select one more from the close your eyes. You let her select. So unbiased. We are very fortunate that you stayed longer that we could have your association evening.

Question: Can you please explain the words ‘svadharma’, your own religious duty. How important is this in Kṛṣṇa consciousness? What is meant by religious duty? And does this please Kṛṣṇa? From Your humble disciple, Līlāmayī Rādhikā Devī Dāsī.

Jayapatākā Swami:  So ‘svadharma’, just like some of you may be students, so your svadharma meant to study, graduate, use your education. Some may be gṛhasthas. Their svadharma is to give charity, to do sacrifices, to raise their family, feed the sannyāsīs. [laughter] Everybody’s duty is to chant,

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/
Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare!

But like if somebody who is a gṛhastha, wants to do the duties of someone who is a sannyāsī, that won’t be good. Or someone who is a sannyāsī, if he wants to work and maintain his family, then that’s not his svadharma. So, at least according to the āśramas, the time of Arjuna, the varṇas were very strong. And so, because Arjuna was a warrior, so that was his kṣatriya svadharma and Kṛṣṇa was talking to that.

And we don’t have such clear defined varṇic or caste kind of delineations now in Kali-yuga. But the āśrama is still an important factor. So, according to our āśrama, just like if somebody gets married, then it’s part of their duty to try to have children. But if someone gets married and says, “I want to be a brahmacārī for ten years first and try for children after”, maybe the wife doesn’t agree. I know one case like that. So, it was creating a lot of confusion. So according to our… We should have to act according to our svadharma. If you want to become a gṛhastha, there’s going to be certain things you have to do. And if you want to be a brahmacārī, then there is other things. So at least as far as the āśramas are concerned, we do our svadharma. You can also take the advice that Kṛṣṇa is giving. If someone’s a policeman, they have to act according to their svadharma, their occupation, whatever it is. So this is the question that she picked. What’s your name? Teju. Teju. You’re full of Tej, spiritual force.

Question: Is there provision for bābājī-veṣa within ISKCON? [laughter]

Jayapatākā Swami:  That’s the question. There are a few people that took bābājī during the time of Prabhupāda. Unfortunately, most of them didn’t stay as a bābājī. They left it. Just like people leave sannyāsa, they left bābājī. It’s a kind of sannyāsa where you agree to stay in one holy place and just do mainly chanting. So it’s a possibility. It’s not very common, if somebody wants to settle in Vṛndāvana or Māyāpur.

There was a case where somebody had a terminal cancer and he convinced Prabhupāda, I just want to go to Māyāpur and prepare to die. So he got bābājī, he went to Māyāpur. But then after about three months, the mosquitoes, he’s living in grass hut and different factors. He decided, “Let me go back to the West and try to cure my cancer.” He cured it and he was no longer a bābājī. So maybe the austerities he did Māyāpur helped him to cure his cancer. But if someone has. Normally we prefer preaching; sannyāsa meant for preaching, travelling and preaching, and helping people. [Audio abruptly ends]