19900910 Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 4.14.30

The following is a lecture given by His Holiness Jayapataka Swami on September 10th, 1990 in Copenhagen. The class begins with a reading from the Srimad Bhagavatam 4th canto chapter 14 verse 30.

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ
paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim
yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande
sri gurm dīna tārīnam
paramānanda-mādhavam
sri caitanya īsvaram

My dear Vidura, all good fortune unto you. The foolish King, who thought himself very learned, thus insulted the great sages, and the sages, being brokenhearted by the King’s words, became very angry at him.

Text 31

hanyatāṁ hanyatām eṣa
pāpaḥ prakṛti-dāruṇaḥ
jīvañ jagad asāv āśu
kurute bhasmasād dhruvam

Translation

All the great saintly sages immediately cried: Kill him! Kill him! He is the most dreadful, sinful person. If he lives, he will certainly turn the whole world into ashes in no time.

Purport

Saintly persons are generally very kind to all kinds of living entities, but they are not unhappy when a serpent or a scorpion is killed. It is not good for saintly persons to kill, but they are encouraged to kill demons, who are exactly like serpents and scorpions. Therefore all the saintly sages decided to kill King Vena, who was so dreadful and dangerous to all human society. We can appreciate the extent to which the saintly sages actually controlled the king. If the king or government becomes demonic, it is the duty of a saintly person to upset the government and replace it with deserving persons who follow the orders and instructions of saintly persons.

 Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta translation, purport text 30 & 31, chapter 14, canto 4 of the Srimad Bhagavatam in the matter of the story of King Vena.

In the vedic age which is not very well documented in the western world for unknown reason. So much attention has been given to Babylonian, Egyptian pharoahs. But the vedic civilization is by and large a mystery here in the Western world to some degree possibly misrepresented. Although, it predates all these other Mediterranean, Middle East civilizations and it has a much more profound civilization. At that time, the king was an institution and he had particular, specific duties. He was supposed to, the constitution was already given in the courts of Manu or the scriptures and the king was to inform the law that people were following them proper codes of behaviour. He was to have a police and a army defend the kingdom. He was also to apprehend the miscreants, the criminals, the robbers, arrest them and punish them. He was considered the arm. Just lije ina body, we have arms. Arms are specifically for defending. But the sages, the brahmanas were for, were considered the head. They were to guide the rest of the body. So earlier in this chapter, it explains in the previous chapter how this king Vena. Even as a child, he was a very cruel person. When he would play with his neighbourhood kids, he would murder few of them. Just in playing, he would strangle them and then they die. Because he was a child, no one could do anything and you know, 5 years away , he's been killing his friends. He was a very heavy character. So, when he grew up, he was worse, he was a little despot. So, all the sages have come to him and they requested that as a king, you have to protect the citizens. He had to establish and follow the principles of religion. He should worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You should follow, giving him so many good instructions. So, there are also verses in the Vedas that say that a properly situated king is representing the devas, the demigods, representing God on Earth, things like that. So, he took those and what do you mean worship God, what do you mean worship? You are so into worshipping the demigods. I'm the embodiment of God. I'm the embodiment. He, just like, twisted everything around. He's supposed to represent, idea being that God is protecting everyone, so that the king properly is protecting the citizens and he is also representing God. Not that, he is God. But he presented and said, you should worship me. Bring your 6:14 IT tray, bring your lamps, bring your offerings. You do puja to me. Why do you want to worship anyone more than me. There's no one superior to me... something like that. So, when the sages heard this, they saw, this person's cruel, he's rascal and on top of that, he thinks he's God. Then, finally, when they heard this, they decided, he should be killed. If he's allowed to be king, then he's going to completely burn the whole world to ashes. He's going to create a lot of problem for everybody. So, at that time, the king had the councellor Brahmanas. They were like ministers but they weren't below the king. They were above the king. The king was supposed to offer them respect and take their guidance and according to their guidance, he was supposed to govern. He had a sub-ordinate council of departmental head ministers but this was a special council of brahmins or sages. So, he didn't care for them. He said, you worship me. Why are you worshipping God? So, there is a powerful that by mystic power, they could force the king to leave his body. Just by their own, they didn't had to take a gun and shoot him, simply by mantra, they could make the king leave his body. The king didn't realise how powerful they were. Ofcourse, today, such type of wise men are and powerful wise men are not readily visible. Certainly, they don't have the power to curse. Hardly, anyone has the power to bless. Srila Prabhupad wanted, however, they should be some qualified Krishna conscious people who would be able to guide government. Someone who is a safe or someone who is a brahmana, he doesn't want to personally manage the government. It's not like, they want to kill the king, then take over and run the government themself. They want to remain above cause being a king or being a politician is not a clean job in one sense. It's a little bit of a dirty work. So, someone who wants to remain in a very transcendental position and very spiritualised position, if he goes into that particular work, then, it's easy to get polluted. So, they rather have someone, who is a warrior, who is, courageous or he likes to have a little luxurious life that doesn't matter, if he does his job and if he listens to the wise guidance or the wise men. They didn't want to become the government, rather they wanted to have a powerful warrior who would take their great advice and implement it. They wanted a leader personality but the leader should also follow the higher intelligence. So, this king Vena was such a rascal. He didn't follow anybody and he was a very cruel person. So, they saw that we had to get rid of him. Otherwise, there won't be any peace in the world with this type of person ruling. So, Srila Prabhupad wanted that, we should have Krishna conscious governments. People should become spiritual, their consciousness should be uplifted. They should know the higher principles of life. What is the progressive advancement of human civilization. Those who are in the parliament or those who are actually guiding government making law, they should all be following modes of goodness. They should not be sinful people. But, they should be rather very pure people. The reality is something different but this is the actual ideal situation. This is 9:30 vedic laws were handed down. Ofcourse originally by those who were, you can say interpreted or applied to the present time by the council of brahmins and the king was the one who implement the laws. So, it was looking very well, until brahmanas became contaminated, they became polluted also. Then, the king here is the country I polluted but the brahmanas are pure. So, that could be adjusted. But, if the brahmanas are spoiled, then, where is the hope. This is a problem in, developed later on. He said the whole varnashrama system gradually became distorted. Jaya Gaur Nitai, Nitai Gaur ki jaya. However, there's , even 2500 years ago, in India, there was one great king named Chandragupta and this was just, maybe 2300 years, just after the, I can't remember. It's after the Buddhist rule or before. I think, it's after. He was guided by a brahmin called Kautilya, who also saw that the present king was kind of a despot. So, he wanted to put in this Chandragupta, he saw was a very good person. So, he gave him advice, how he control over the government and take over himself. So, this Chandragupta followed his advice and he became the emperor and he was such a powerful emperor that he conquered and united all of the princely states in India that time. Infact, his kingdom spread from Persia to Indo- China borders. So, he was very powerful. Now, his brahman guide, Kautilya or Chanakya, he offered, you be my prime minister. I'll give you a palace. I'll give you, he said. I'll be a prime minister for the purpose of serving the people. I don't want any salary. I don't want any perks. I don't want any house. I won't live in your palace. I live in a grass hut. Outside the palace grounds, you can give me some garden, somewhere. I'll build my grass hut and I want to live there. Because, if I accept your salary, I become your paid man. Then, I'll lose my intellectual independence. I don't need anything. I am a saintly person. I can live with a few cloths and something to eat. I don't need luxury but I live in your luxurious house, I may develop a desire, taste for luxury, become dependent on those things. I want to live in a simple way. I'll give you my knowledge. I'll give you my service. I don't need any salary from you. So, this is a very rare kind of person. He lived by a much higher principle of goodness. So, that was the principle just as example. That was the principle that Brahmans would live. Even 500 years ago, in a time of Lord Chaitanya, the brahmanas follow this principle of a simple life style. The kings would have big palaces and big houses like landlords. But the brahmanas, they would live simply. They would live in mud houses. Nowadays, when you see pictures of Indian people with mud houses, in Denmark, then people think that oh! these are very poor people, very bad. Ofcourse, nowadays, people are studying alternative technology and they are finding that one of the best substances for building a house is mud because it's a very good insulator. If we have a thick mud wall, there's a good insulation in the hot weather. In India, you have more problem with heat and cold. So that thick wall keeps up the heat and is very cool inside. The grass roof has a better insulation than a concrete house. Concrete absorbs the heat, bricks absorb the heat and become very hot unless, you have very thick wall. Mud is a very good insulator. The grass is a good insulator. I know one millionaire. He has, he lives only in grass and mud house. Of course, he put air conditioning inside (devotees laughing). But, he likes the aesthetic. But, we get idea that this is very primitive, but it is also very practical and even a common man, he can have a house. So, it's not necessarily a progress, everybody has a brick house. If you live in a cold climate, you need to have a brick house, you need to have double windows, need to have so many facilities to survive against the climate. But if you are living in an environment which is different, then, you have also indigenous kind of technologies which have developed. It doesn't mean, it's primitive, it may also be practical. We have, in our gurukul, in Mayapur, we have, all the boys are staying in these mud and grass houses with a very high roof. So, they find , even without fans, without air conditioning, without anything because of the very nature of the house, of putting them in between many trees and like a forest. It is very cool. It is very pleasant and the vibration is very aesthetic. The head master of the gurukul school, he said I don't want any brick buildings for the students because when the kids start to play, talk, the echoes in the brick and it makes so much sound and then it creates a passionate vibration. But here in the grass and the mud, in the trees, in the bushes, it absorbs all the sounds and keeps it very peaceful. Inspite of having so many kids, it is still peaceful. Otherwise you get that many kids together, it's a racquet. But here, even though, so many kids, it's peaceful. So, this also keeps the children peaceful, keeps them serene. So, he has a whole philosophy behind. So, many things affect us without realising but according to the environment we live in, this has a affect upon our own consciousness. Infact, even the people we meet, theii vibration, their attitudes that rubs off on us. Prahlad Maharaj said that just like a mere association is so powerful that our own consciousness would mere the people we are with. If there are people who are negative, they're frustrated, they're bitter, it's easy for us to also develop a better negative attitude. If you associate with people who are taking intoxication it's hard to resist the urge to also join them and also take intoxication. So, association is very powerful. So, although, we are individuals, we are independent, we have free will but what happens is according to the association we choose. We naturally sacrifice that real independence. We may think we are independent but because we are only offered multiple choices, so to speak. Because whatever association we are in, certain number of choices are going to be given. Like, some friends, let's do this or that. He's not going to say so many things. He will only usually say certain limited number of ideas. Let's go to the movie. Let's go the races. Let's go to the beach. Let's go to the 16:50 as well and just go wherever. So, depending on the association, you get different choices. You get different kind of environment. So, what happens is, actually, by association, we get conditioned in a particular way. So, therefore, if one wants to advance in spiritual life, it is recommended one should associate with spiritual people. Just like, people who want to advance in business, they join the rotary, they join the commercial chamber of commerce, to get association with other business people, to get ideas. They may subscribe to the Wall Street journal or the Financial Times and some similar newspapers, to get ideas from other business people. Now, somebody wants spiritual life, then we also choose that type of association - associate with the devotees of Krishna, associate with people who are regularly practising yoga, who are taking spiritual life style as their way of life, read literatures which are giving us spiritual knowledge. These things are the natural effects, natural environment which will be beneficial for our advancing in spiritual life. General people follow the leader. You see, nowadays, people don't follow the leader as much but still people follow certain social leaders. Here, in this verse, the king Venu, he wants to be the leader of society. So, the wise men could see ,that , if he is a leader and people follow him, the whole society may become a hell. So, they wanted to replace him for a proper leader. That's a very unique situation. There's very few examples of this in the Vedas, where they had to remove a king like that. Generally, a king would listen to the brahmanas. He would change his ways. He would respect the brahmanas. This king was so 18:38, he didn't care for anybody. He thought he was independent of all natural laws. So, we have to avoid also developing this kind of 18:48 attitude, where we think, we are independent of all laws. We may have a free choice that doesn't mean, we don't have to take the result for whatever we do. We have a free will, if we want to kill someone, we have to take the result of that. We may also be killed in the future. You try to figure out, why is it in the middle East, so many people are facing each other with weapons. Why it looks like a very big war, it can break any moment? And from one point of view, it's very amazing. Few months ago, there was nothing. You know, all of a sudden, there is a, you know, a big crisis. But all these people, all these countries are very active in slaughtering animals and eating animal flesh. I think if the, forget the figure but in America, there's something like, not millions but billions of animals are killed every week or something like that. It's a incredible amount. So, if we add up all the chicken, all the lambs,

all the pigs, all the cows, the amount of animals which are killed is like, some mind boggling. So, who takes all that Karma, for killing all those innocent animals. But, especially, in the modern day, you don't need. America has surplus grain. Infact, they feed the grain to the animals. It says, they could feed 5 times as many people, if they fed the grain directly to the people rather than fattening all the animals. In other words, you could feed off the whole population of the world 2 times over, it is said that if you fed the grains to the people rather than feeding them to the animals because if we feed grain to the animals, it's producing body heat, fur hair, bones, fat and so many other things. The actual percentage, actually goes to producing muscle flesh for eating. It is a very small percent. It is running around spending most of that energy but what the grain itself, is already directly, we can also eat that grain and directly get the benefit. We don't have to cycle it through an animal and then kill the animal who doesn't want to die. So, because people tend to be think or just ignorant of the results for what they are doing. So, they have to suffer, any case, these laws of nature. The wise people are not trying to just put their ideas on the king but what they are doing is they knew the laws of nature, they knew what a person should do in order to be happy and they are giving their advice but if the king didn't want to follow, then he was told that you are going to suffer from your own reactions. So, similarly the Vedas are giving us knowledge, this knowledge representing to everyone, whether a person wants to be a member of our society, whether they want to be a friend of our society or associate, whether they like to live in a temple or they like to practice in their home, whether they just like to visit and know about what we are doing. We are giving these books to any and everyone, whether they are Christian, whether they are Muslim, whether they are Buddhist, whether they are atheist, we don't care. It is a knowledge for everyone. It is a open secret if someone wants to know it. But, in their wisdom, in this knowledge, you can find out, what are the natural laws which are affecting everyone of us. So, what's happening is that, lot of murder is going on, lot of killing is going on in the world, killing of innocent animals. So, the reaction is that, without apparent reason, not a very good reason, just for some political reason, for some economic reasons, you see, every country has a right to protect its own country. But here, we are protecting other countries. That maybe alright, but then there is not even any kind of agreement like that. In any case, whatever it is, the fact is, if innocent people die, what appear to be innocent people, it's not because they are innocent, it's because they are getting karma from previous birth, you know, this birth. Somebody has to take the karma for killing all the animals. So, like this, people are dying in car accidents. Then, one who died in the whole second world war and car accidents are very violent, horrible things where people get thrown out of windows, crushed by other vehicles and wars are very horrible things and these wars are also, going on. So, if you want to have a peaceful world, we need to know the laws of nature, what Krishna consciousness is giving to the world, is a way to organise things that people can be peaceful, can be happy, there can be progressive spiritual advancement and eventually will see that actually what we are presenting is not simply a religious dogma but we are actually presenting a way of life which will solve the problems. People are worried about ecology but it's just a hobby to discuss it and practice how many people are willing to live a simple way of life. Unless a person becomes more spiritualised like these brahmanas, where they actually see that the spiritual development is the goal of life. They are not going to be willing to sacrifice very much their life style. If a person thinks that the satisfaction of life means to have a lot of material comforts, that's the only happiness in life, then, why will they sacrifice the real happiness of life. But, if someone realises that happiness of life comes from inner spiritual development, from spiritual bliss, from spiritual development or transcendental knowledge, attend, they can sacrifice a little bit of material facility, if that will be conducive for their spiritual life. So, the devotees, they rise early in the morning. Many people like to sleep late. We find that, for meditation, if we rise early in the morning before sunrise, this is conducive for our meditation. Like this, so, we voluntarily take up little bit of what would be materially considered as an austerity or inconvenience and the devotees learn to find that this is actually very nice because of developing a spiritual taste. So, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, He was presenting also this type of spiritual life and even amongst this, I mean, we are far from brahminical culture that even brahminical culture looks very good now. But from Lord Chaitanya's point of view, even amongst the brahminical culture, culture in the mode of goodness, He wanted people to come up to the transcendental culture. We may also have to go in the phase way, first brahminical, then transcendental. We can directly take people to transcendental. Transcendental includes brahminical automatically. But the transcendental, means, more than just living a life which is more in harmony with nature but to lead a life which is in harmony with God. There's a slight difference. Leading a life which is in harmony with Krishna brings out our own spiritual potential. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, He was very strict. He was a brahmana. He was a sanyasi. One king wanted to meet Him, King Prataparudra. So, the king sent a message that I want to meet You but Lord Chaitanya refused. He said that, I'm in the renounced order of life. I came as someone who is active in politics and in material enjoyment. So, I don't want to meet a king because it may contaminate me. People, what will they say? My reputation will be destroyed as a spiritualist, if I hobnob with the kings. They think, I've become a politician. So, He refused to see the king. Quite a rare circumstance. The society, then, was very rigid. So, then king, he tried many ways to see Lord Chaitanya but everytime, he was rebuffed. Ofcourse, part of the problem was, he wanted to go and see Him as a king. So, then, finally, Lord Chaitanya, He saw that this king of Orissa, he was a very great devotee and he would go every year at the Rath Yatra festival of Jagannath and he would sweep the road before Lord Jagannath. The sweeping of the road before Jagannath, is something which is going on since thousands and thousands of years. Think there is no parallel of that. Usually the kings, you know, they are not going to sweep a road. King is not going to go out and clean the garbage in the street. But, in Orissa, the king would do that. Not for any ordinary reason but he would do it before the diety of Krishna, that when Krishna was going on a procession, he would sweep the road before Krishna. Just like that, clean the path. You are going on my kingdom that I'm managing on Your behalf. To show that I'm a servant of Krishna, he would sweep the road. This famous story about one of the, I think, regional king Indradyumna. After establishing the Jagannath worship, may be one of his descendants, I don't remember. I think Indradyumna himself. There was a proposal that he should marry some princess from a neighbouring kingdom. But that king, he sent over some spies, you go, check out this king whether, what type of person he is, whether he is suitable to marry my daughter. So, they sent their spies. They just happened to go at the time of the Jagannath, Krishna Rath Yatra festival where they take Krishna on the procession. So, there, they saw that, they came in a big procession, on his elephant. Even today, still called Gajapati, the king of the elephants or Lord, king having having so many elephants. He was very big king. Infact, during the whole Mohammaden and British rule, only Orissa resisted their occupation to the last. He had come up in this...Jaya Gaur Nitai ki jaya!! He had come up in their procession and then he'd get down and then with a golden broom, he'd sweep the road in front of Krishna. You've all seen these big big Rath Yatra cars, everyone knows Rath Yatra.I think that chariots about 50, about 20metres high in he done, 2-3 kms from the Jagannath Puri temple in Orissa, India to another smaller temple called Gundicha. So, when this spy saw this, he said, what type of King is this, he's sweeping the road. He's a street sweeper, garbage cleaner. He went back and reported this to the king. He sent a message, my daughter is not going to marry any street sweeper. Forget it! So, the king took that as a offence, not to him but to the whole culture, that it's not street sweeper, if you sweep the road before God, before Krishna. This insult to Krishna's position that a king should now down and be subservience to the laws of Krishna, laws of God. It's like, he declared war against king and they marched off with all their, took the blessing from Jagannath and Baladev and Subhadra and then they went off with the army with that religious work, to defend the principle of, that he was challenging, not that he really cared for that, getting this princess for much better 30:04 for the principle. So, on the way, the king was really praying to Krishna whether I have your blessing for this or not, whether I'll be successful. So, then, in front of the king was 2 young princess hiding. One was dark in complexion, one was light in complexion and one was riding on grey horse and other was riding on the black horse. So, they are going ahead and then they happened to meet one village lady who was carrying a big pot of yogurt. So, they asked them. Please give us the yogurt. She said, Well, I'm a poor lady. If I give the yogurt, how will I exist. This is my income. This is my subsistence to sell the yogurt. They said, Well, we are the generals for the great king Indradyumna, who is coming behind us. So, you give us the yogurt and when you see him, then you ask him and he will pay you. But she said, how is he? I can see a great king. I'm just a simple village woman. He won't allow anyone. I mean, he won't speak to me. I won't get close to him. So, they said- You take this ring and you just show this ring and then he'll give you the payment for the yogurt. So, it's a nice gold ring. So, she took the ring and said okay, I'll give the ring to him. Ring was worth more even than the yogurt. Anyway, she was a very honest person. So, she was going to give the king the ring. Then, these two generals drove off, took the yogurt. So, then, when the huge army came and she tried to see the king, the people, you know, the sentries, they stopped. What do you want? And she is making.. No! No!I have, you know, there was like, a whole commotion going on the side. So, the king what's going on over there? See there, woman is screaming. No, I have to see the king. What's going on? Get out of here. I have this, you know. So, then, he 32:01okay, you bring this lady. What is the matter? And she explained what happened. Two of your generals, they came ahead. They took yogurt from me and gave me this ring and they told me that, you know, you'd pay for the yogurt. And he said, two of generals. I didn't send any generals. Let me see that ring and he looked at the ring. Jaya Jagannath!! This is Lord Jagannath's ring. What did these two generals look like? She said, one he was dark coloured. He had a helmet with a peacock on it. The other was white and He was with a.. This is Krishna and Balaram. You know, then he had. He sent a huge, you know, festival right there. This was the sign. It's Krishna and Balaram with them giving their blessings. So, ofcourse, they were victorious and then the king could understand later the actual significance. So, like that Lord Chaitanya, He saw the same king, descended after thousands of years, sweeping the road. So, then he thought, well, he's not ordinary king. He's a devotee. So, then He allowed his son to come and meet him and gave blessings to his son and then, later, when he was in the garden, after the Rath Yatra, the king was advised, don't go as a king, you dress as a Vaishnava.You wear ordinary white clothes and tilak. You just go as a humble devotee. Don't go with your helmets and your soldiers and your ministers and all. He is not going to see you like that. If you go as a humble devotee. So, then, Lord Chaitanya, He was just resting in the garden and the king came as 33:36. King Prataparudra massaging His lotus feet, started to sing bhajans to Krishna. He's a very good devotee.So, he knows a lot of bhajans to cajuse 33:48 this singing. Lord Chaitanya, he was playing. He didn't know who was doing this and He just relaxing, listening to the bhajans and this way when bhajan is very nice, I think He really gave His blessing to this Prataparudra. So, Lord Chaitanya said that, in this age, if someone wants to approach Him, he should do it very humbly. It's not that, we go to Krishna, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, that, okay, I'm a Ph.D., I'm a M.A or I'm a M.D or I'm a big lawyer. I'm a big businessman. I'm a big this and big that, so many qualifications, therefore, I'm going. We just go humbly that, You are all merciful, we are coming to You because we want your mercy. We don't go with any material assumption or greatness. Those things are temporary. We can use those in Krishna's service. Not that, we have to ignore our, you see, not utilise those. Whatever capacity we use it, we don't use it as some qualification for approaching Krishna. Because what He is giving is something which, thses things are not really, they are not comparable or important in that sense. They are things that we can use in Krishna's service. Whatever ability, we have, we use that and when we approach the Lord, we just approach as a simple, humble devotee. So, Lord Chaitanya, He would accept anyone, if they came in that way. But, if they came in a very assuming way, they would often be rebuffed. Not only kings but even pandits. If the pandit was very proud and he was not respectful to the previous gurus, so, Lord Chaitanya also, would not consider them very significant. Just like, sometimes, He would criticise, if you are not following previous masters. Therefore, you are being unfaithful. You are being like a prostitute who is going from one person to the next. You are not being faithful to your own Guru. So, Lord Chaitanya, He was strict about these principles. At the same time, anybody came unassumingly to Him, wanting to get His mercy, He would give the mercy very easily. So, there maybe, in the future times, when the Krishna conscious movement will also have to advise people regarding what is the proper thing to do, what's improper to do, in terms of running, even countries. In order to do that, or even to advise the present people, that's why we have so many books. These books give a different perspective of life, a perspective which will give a practical understanding of how to apply spiritual life, that human beings are not just sophisticated animals but they are living entities with a higher intelligence to be able to understand what is the purpose of life. We don't develop that intelligence and try to understand who we are. If we don't develop our intelligence to achieve self realisation, then we remain in undeveloped human being and the present society is basically leading to that. Goal is civilization, not taking the people to self- realisation. We should realise who we are, what were we before we took birth? what will we be after we take birth? Who are we and how do we fot into the whole universe? Who is Krishna? Who is the Supreme Lord? What is our relationship? What is this material world? What is the spiritual world? All these questions can be understood by human being. But we don't try to understand these and we don't try to approach the proper authority, then we will be remaining in the darkness of ignorance. So, all these questions can only be really understood by studying, by reading, by taking the information from these Vedas, from these vedic literatures because vedic literatures have this information in uncontaminated way. Scientists are never going to get a clear picture how things began. You see, even the materialistic people, the materialistic thinkers before, they could understand that, obviously the material nature has intelligence behind it because it's so well organized. Order is always a symptom of intelligence. You come into a city, you see, there's street lights, you see, there's a garbage cleaned up, road cleaned up, water, all these aminities, you see the street lights, someone doesn't have to tell you. You know there's a government here because this a organization. That means some government is there. Some intelligence has been put up. Otherwise, these things are not running, unless there is some organization or some intelligence behind it. You see, the whole nature, everything is working very nicely. So, this shows, there is some intelligence. Even the atheists in the previous time, they could understand, there was some intelligence but what they thought, the atheistic people, this doesn't prove God because it could be that different higher entities at different times in the universe, they have created some order which 38:51 thinks. They weren't God, but they were some higer entity who created some order, then left it and someone else came and created another little order some other time. They had this idea or you get a pantheistic idea that there maybe many Gods or there maybe many authority but there is not necessarily any supreme authority. So, in the past, atheistic people understood, there was higher intelligence. Today, still, scientists are trying to push on us that everything is by accident which is completely ridiculous. No one has seen anything by accident, just take some kind of organized form like that. Our scientists have 39:29 Das, he's calculated by using information, mathematical system, what are the arts of even creating one simple molecule of organic molecule, what to speak of, you know, creating a whole organized living entity. Just one simple, like, DNA or some other, i forget, one simple kind of molecule which is a necessary building block for life and if the figure is so ridiculous that even the wild is completely impossible that by sheer chance life has come, what to speak of this whole developed species according to, like Darwin's theory that have developed. See, you are never going to prove that their is existence of God or not. That, you can't prove because even if you can finally come to the point, there is intelligence, 40:16 you'll find some intelligence came organized here. That doesn't prove, there's a God. Or you can say, where did that intelligence come, where did that come? Like this but still, it doesn't prove definitively what the origin is. So, actually to understand, what is the origin. So, just like, if we want to know who is our father, we go to the mother. We ask the mother, who's our father? You see, nowadays, in society, before you know that mother's husband was father but maybe nowadays you don't know, maybe whether your mother's not also married. So many scenarios are there. But, if you really want to know, who the father is, you have to go to the mother. If anyone knows, she should know. If she doesn't know, you are into trouble but generally, you see, the mother should know. In the same way, we want to know 41:02 comes and we have to go something which is before the origin. So, these Vedas are considered like the mother. There the information which tells us about those things which are not normally available to our perception. They are highly scientific literatures which are giving us knowledge about the self, knowledge about spiritual energy, knowledge about self realisation, knowledge about Krishna, knowledge about creation, about everything. So distributing these books, these transcendental literature is actually giving, kind of, a revolutionary knowledge to society. In the West, they never had access to this. Infact, even in India, only the brahmana priests would get these literatures. Before, the ancient system was like that. Generally people weren't so educated to comprehend all these concepts. Now people, everyone is getting good education and everyone is very literate. So, there's no reason why they can't try to understand. Whether they believe or not, whether they want to, atleast they could understand, what is the idea given in the vedic culture. If someone doesn't know that idea, then something's missing in their life. Such a major part of the history of the world. Such a , millions of people are practicing and finding great peace of mind, great spiritual inspiration. So, why shouldn't everybody also, atleast know what it is. Similar objective view point that we are reading so many novels, seeing so many movies which no one can claim, no one even tries to claim that this is going to change the destiny of the world. We are claiming 42:39 assertion is that these Bhagavatams can change the entire future of the world. Whether you believe or not, the only way to know, read them and find out. So, those devotees are giving these literatures. They are giving these kind of new perspective of life, a whole new cultural 42:59 society which was never there before. So, you are all very dear to the Lord for doing this confidential service and we hope that everyone will take advantage of distributing these books or reading the books of the Bhagavatam and Bhagavad Gita and thus your life will be sublime.Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare ( devotees repeating after Guru Maharaj). Any question?

Question: Do one have to see God to 43:33?

Guru Maharaj: You don't have to see Him like that with the eyes in order to believe in God ( devotees laughing). One could believe due to many reasons presented. One can also experience God even without seeing. Say somebody, they eat something with their eyes closed. They don't see the foot but they can taste it, they can smell, they can feel the effect of the food. So, they'll beleive that there's good food even without seeing. So, we see that also by hearing God, we can believe Him. It is said that more important than seeing is hearing. When we are asleep at night, our seeing is not working. But the ears are always working. When people want to wake up, they set alarm clock. The alarm clock makes a sound. The sound because the ears are the one sense that doesn't ever completely turn off. Even people can sleep with the lights on, sometimes, if , they are tired, you know. But, if it's a very noisy place, you can't sleep. The ears are, in any case, the ears are the more sensitive. They are the most spiritually attuned. So, it's, at first, we should realise God. We should try to see God through our ears. Hear about Him, chant His name. By chanting the mantra, which is not different from God, you can also feel a change in your own consciousness, you can feel the effect in yourself and that is even more important than seeing. Seeing also, but not. We don't want to just see God, ina sense of, what is sight. Sight is the reflection of light waves coming of different objects. We want to see in a more complete, both dimensional, spiritual sense. A spiritual type of realisation which is not simply superficial vision but a deep realisation but we can see our own spiritual identity and we can also see the Lord's on a higher plane. So, to bring our consciousness up to that level, to be able to, you have that profound realisation, we need to purify the consciousness and the easiest and recommended way is to hearing. Hearing these classes on Srimad Bhagavatam and also chanting Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare and hearing the vibration. So, then, hearing, then, you can actually experience the presence of Krishna. You can experience that sublime feeling. Just like, after eating a meal, you'll feel full. You'll feel satisfied. You'll feel peaceful.

Question: Can one see that the spirit is colourful?

Guru Maharaj: Yes, it's full with variety and colour and quality because spirit is the origin of matter. So matter has so much colour and varieties, so spirit has also full with colour and variety but this is temporary. Now, it is fall, just end of summer. Soon, the leaves will turn red and yellow and fall off and it will become winter. So, these are temporary manifestations. But the spirit is eternal. So, it's variety, it's colour is eternal, doesn't die or seize to exist.

Question: What about the 47:15

Guru Maharaj: This is a partial manifestation. The formless is expanded everywhere but the formless is dependent upon the form form of God with form. Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita, brahmano hi pratisthaham. I am the basis for the impersonal life which is expanded everywhere. It is true, there is impersonal light but just like, the sunlight is coming from the Sun. You can say, the sunlight is impersonal. In this room, now, sunlight may come in a few moments. So, then, here we say, the sunlight is in the room, we don't say, the Sun is in the room. There is a difference between the sunlight and the Sun. So, light is impersonal but the light is also coming from something. So, Krishna says that light is coming from Me. I am the basis for that light also. So, the impersonalists, also, one aspect of the Lord. But the Supreme aspect is called sagun- with qualities but with spiritual qualities. In this material world, we see the temporary nature of things. We get frustrated by the varieties like the colours and we think that, if, we have no quality, then, we'll have peace. We don't know, there's a higher type of quality, which is in itself peaceful, beautiful and it doesn't go through these changes. So, they are saying that actually, this material world is a kind of a shadow or reflection of the spiritual world. Just like, if, you takes movie camera. You have here, the light going through the film, so that image is projected, right!. It goes to the lens. There is a point, where there is a focal point or that, actually the picture is upside down and then, it goes to that point and then it comes right side up on the screen. So, He said that the impersonal light, that is just like the focal point and what's on the screen, opposite of what's on the origin. So, what the product, the material product is the 2 dimensional but the regional image was a picture of a 3 dimensional object. That's 49:30 recorded our film and that's now being projected as a 2 dimensional. But, the origin, in this world, is 3 dimensional. But the original world is 4 dimensional and the impersonal life is just a focal point between the two. This is a reflection. This world is a reflection of the original spiritual world. That is where we belong. That is what you are hankering for because we don't find that here, we get frustrated and if we use our own mental speculation, we think, okay, the impersonal life, this will give us peace. But, what we really want, is that spiritual world, spiritual environment. Yes.,...

Question: So, the 3 dimensional, we can't define 50:07

Guru Maharaj: It's above time. Here, everyty is under the control of time. So, everything is past, present and future. But, in the 50:21, they mentioned as, time is also one of the element which is under the control, that's eternally present. There's no past, there's no future. Here, there's no present, in the real sense. It's always, but, just like, I'm seeing you. I'm not actually seeing. I'm seeing a reflection of light coming off your body, coming to my eye, going to my brain and then, it comes down to the atma who is actually getting the vision. So, some time is gone by. Sound is lower than light. So, someone is a distance, sometimes you yell. You see the jet moving, you can see the jet here but the sound is coming from behind. It's because sound is going much slower. Light is very fast. So, we think, it's like a media. But some time is already gone by. So, actually, we are never in complete direct contact. In the spiritual, there's like, no seperation. If you see someone here on real time and you are not seeing, you are actually, I don't know, we cannot understand how this is but you are directly in communication with that person by seeing, by talking. There's no seperation like that. So, I mean, it's obviously, our brain is 3 dimensional product, so we cannot fully comprehend how it works but everything is conscious, there's no seperation. Everything is, time is not affected there. Time is under the control of that, so that time factor is what makes the difference in the fourth dimension.

Thank you