1996 Valuable Questions & Answers - ISKCON Radhadesh

Jayapatākā Swami:

… read questions and we could start off today answering those questions from yesterday. Yes!

Devotee: Since there was gradation of devotees, the leader and so on up to the guest and since there was a rule that junior preacher is preached by senior preacher not by someone higher in this gradation. Is it understandable?

Jayapatākā Swami: Yes!

Devotee: And someone, how to motivate them?

Jayapatākā Swami: How, regional teacher

Devotee: Ya! I am asking about, you’re just strict rule that will come to leader don’t preach the level...

Jayapatākā Swami:

Congregational people all have limited time also, if one person teaches everybody like we had in their, mean the leader did meet with all the new people and spend time, so in that way in a group forum. But if he had to teach every, you see that whatever time they work with such Sachinandan Maharaj and the DTE as well as we have something basic and advanced manual. Would we say when a person newly join, what should be the bhakta program for a new Namahatti bhakta? So to speak. What are the basic things that they need to know before they can kind of function in a normal way. So you know may be like Prabhupāda pranam or chanting japa or how to, few basic things they have to know and then as they move up it would become more. So it’s not that the leader has to be, train every single person how to chant japa, you see. He can be assigned the basic, certain things can be assigned to the person sponsor. In fact even in old or new person may sometimes be able to take that. Maybe you have a shortage of junior preachers or you don’t have all these, you know different gradations. Then you just take some, you list the devotees those are senior and can train up in the basic, you please help bhaktin Mary, you please help bhaktin Anna and teach her how to, you be like the sponsor or the caretaker, you take care of her. See that she learns how to do the japa, help her through her, she has to, she has this ten things, she has in the ten point program. Japa, pranam, whatever, offering prasadam, few things. That we see what’s according to the level they are, then they have that program, so that person can help. So that’s why I wanted to say like this, having this shiksha program, we call it shiksha because it’s, we all know diksha. So shiksha, this is your preliminary shiksha, but could be called as, that’s just the easy word that they call it in Bangalore, so we’re using that. You get someone who’s basically committed to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they accept that Kṛṣṇa is God, they accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you come up..

(aside:) How many of you using this program? Anyone have started using this? But how many are using this?

Sacinandana Swami: The way is that in Germany is that, we have in the natural course of preaching people evoke like this but we have not yet come to out something like, see it’s in the systematic way and calling it as. I know from preaching since many many years this is the natural progression which you know, devotees take. I think when we get seriously into the cell group preach or bhakti branch preaching we have to use it because so many more people to deal with.

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

Just like what they did, before even they started the cells, for instance in Bangalore they just started announcing every sunday. They put a board showed that we have a program, this is for the people, the members of the congregation who are interested in advancing spiritually. Which you know that, you say things like that and most people think ‘well! I wanna advance spiritually!’, and we like to recognise you, we want to recognise those of you who are already practicing and you can enter, we have different programs for different people, you can, where ever you feel happy you can, you can enter. So you have the one round program, regularly coming you have the four round vegetarian and doing some service, maybe doing eight rounds but vegetarian but not following the other principles. We have the eighth round and sadhaka means that they’re having altar in the house performing basic sadhana bhakti to some degree, like in a very basic way. Then Prabhupāda ashraya, where they are basically the same level as a bhakta in the temple, they do everything a bhakta. From this point you start counting the days to initiation, taking Prabhupāda ashraya means you wanna prepare to be initiated in the future. Then again after you have guru ashraya which is after sometime they can choose the guru and then finally they take the Harinam.

Now at the Ratha yātrā in Bangalore I saw about 80 people signed up and many of them were children also, you know little kids like, and they called up and there was the ceremony quite beautiful because they saw that they get blessing from Prabhupāda and the deities. The ceremony is giving them a blessing, it’s not a vow bit it’s they’ve taken a commitment that they are doing, to practice on this level, they maybe been already practicing for a month or so on that level. And you wanna recognise and pray please Gaura Nitāi have Your blessing on bhakta Guntik or, I don’t know some Catrene and whoever you give the benediction, they come up, we give them a garland, we give them any, so many come up and they will say how, now taking this blessing was also that you should help others. And we have a program to advance and be a good example in your…

No, I know a friend for instance rock and roll drummer who has been coming to the temple for say ten years. And he cannot come up to, at that point he could not come up to sixteen rounds cause he’ll be up that too one and two in the morning dadadada you know playing the drum for the groups and then night clubs in the, all these places. But he believed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he was vegetarian and he was chanting four, eight rounds, minimum four, many times more but not a very steady and maybe sometimes being in that environment he might not always be avoiding some of the lighter stimulants which are around there, things like that and he would not be so strong. So, but he was at the level, you could say he was at a ‘Kṛṣṇa sevak’, and so when we give him, in the temple they gave him that blessing of ‘Kṛṣṇa sevak’, he later came up to me and said, ‘you know! I felt that in Kṛṣṇa consciousness I could never be long. Because I couldn’t see, I can’t see like when I’m gonna ever be able to be initiated, I‘m very fallen. But now I feel like I’ve been accepted and this is like one of the happiest days of my life.’ I mean you know for the initiated devotee they’re thinking now like, what is all this mean, but for someone who’s you know, I mean you know even boy Goerge he could be may be one of these you know (laughing). And you know he feel okay, I’m accepted in some level you know like we know that, to be one of these levels you don’t want to take the food they cook. We know that because we are initiated but we know that they’re trying and we encourage them and they’ve taken, it makes it easy to organise people when you make groups cause you can, you can give so many of these level, that level, that level. But somehow they’ve come forward and said they’re interested. A lot of it depends in how you market it. If you are not sure about it, if you think you know it’s funny or something then that is gonna come across. And if you can present it in a very positive way and giving your blessing and this has been approved by the GBC about 1993 or so earlier they approved this system.

I mean think of it this way, look at some of the Gauḍīya math people going around. I don't know here Europe, I think it’s coming here, came here already. They come and give instant Harinams, even the people don’t, they might be on this level but they give them Harinam. And then the rest of life they say, I’m so and so Maharaj’s disciple and they are just like they can’t emigrate with ISKCON, it’s a very easily. So basically we can’t reduce our standard of initiation because for us initiation means that we’re guaranteeing that if you follow this you go back to Kṛṣṇa. So we can’t say you know, I guarantee you back to Kṛṣṇa if you chant one round and eat fish, can we? You know but they, but some people are giving initiations to those people. But we can’t say that if you, this is the standard you should work for, you come on this step, it’s like a step. You come up to here, we recognize, we encourage then thinking you’re faithful person, we’re praying to Kṛṣṇa, they bless you, you try to come up to the perfectional plane. And that way make them feel connected with Prabhupāda. So if they feel connected with Prabhupāda, then the likelihood that they go to some other group is less. You know, they're still if somebody really preaches even our own ISKCON devotees are going, that way you can’t say 100%. But it encourage them, makes them feel they’ve been accepted, it makes them less likely to look outside, so there’s many aspects to it. It also gives them what we called baby steps, we heard this from Naveen Kṛṣṇa in some of his seminars saya make it. As Maharaj said, it’s a natural thing you tell, someone comes in, they’re regularly coming, you want to recognise, you’re member of league of devotees or, and then you can say, can if you can just chant one round, your day would be very nice and regularly come to the meetings. So when they’re regularly coming and they’re chanting one round then they’re sraddhavan. First they’re just coming and you know that they’re very favourable, so you give them commitment, whatever membership just they belong.

Sacinandana Swami: Did you mean some paper?

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

Ya, we can give a certificate, I have the wording of the certificate, I don’t have in the art work done on it but they made the copies which I give. And the wording is that just in the name of Rādhā Madhav or whoever the deities are, the blessing on this person, the wordings all there and accordingly you make it with some pictures and things and give them like a certificate, especially kids love it. I saw so many, when the kids start getting it then the parents can’t keepout easy, they also get on in, kids are pretty purifying. So then from one round if someone starts one round you tell then please chant four rounds. Just for instance, if you’re already doing one round for say few months and the four rounds and you know, anyway some people they just, not that you have to go, somebody jumps up, it’s okay. But if someone's slow you know they, some people, I’ve met people where I’ve done these campaigns and ask people at big festivals, who would chant one round a day? And I think if you do festivals you can try this. In India we get thousands of people to raise their hand and I give out mass, you know, certificates. Someone, we went to this house after ten years he had the certificate nailed on the bamboo in the house. And he told me I’m still chanting one round, actually you can increase it, oh really I didn’t know I thought only one, no no! You can (laughing). So you gotta watch out something (laughing). Then I met people also chanted, people coming out for initiation, they said you know so many years ago I got that certificate from you, or from some other ISKCON person, many people give out this.

One time I tried it in New Orleans at a festival. We had a big festival and I know this is America and I thought I have about 200 people there looking like this you know. Still I thought anyway let me try, just what happens, just, so I announced that we have this program we want this is the order of Lord Caitanya and everyone should take up the order to chant everyday. If you just chant 10 minutes a day your life will become sublime, you feel happy and we’ll give even a certificate for you, a blessings here that you can get this had the mantra on it. So please take this opportunity, who would like to come forward and get this? Something like that. So nobody moved (laughing) Oh, I was really embarrassed you know, I kept talking you know, and suddenly one person came and I realized for this in the west you have to have the plant in there, or somebody, it’s like a carnival people, they have one gut goes in and comes forward to buy the coms and things when they’re selling. You need one because the people are too much self conscious not like India everybody raise their hand and the, one person came forward and twenty people came up! I just put it, I thought it’s America! Off the street! just cold, twenty people came up and said I’ll chant 10 minutes a day Hare Kṛṣṇa, I’ll try it. And you just try it, for two months you try it, see if there is any change. No cost! I have twenty people, I thought that was pretty good you know for the, for America you know just cold. And I think like in places like Poland and Slovenia and all these places when you have festival I told Indradyumna Maharaj, he could get hundreds of people, because these people are very open kind of people and they’re not so.

So you get people to start, you give them baby step, one step after another. So I’m gonna give this out for the temples, not really have enough for everyone, we have twenty copies, Maharaj can decide who gets, so each area has the words. So, but this is the, if you just start this program and then you start to train up the people that what is the, then everyone it’s in their, you say part of the program, all these people should be within the bhakti branches. Then it makes it very easy, you see who is interested spiritually and those people, that’s one way of doing it, I mean maybe already have the branches, no problem. But this is a easy way to organise, to get the people more interested in their own spiritual life and then to, once they’ve taken that commitment and got that blessing, you say now you have these branches are there to help you and give you further training and also to, you can get some association with other like minded people. So it works, the thing complements each other. Ya!

Devotee: (inaudible 14:00)

Jayapatākā Swami:

Sometimes, sometimes even some people take initiation and they don’t keep it. But that way what they do generally is whatever people want they give him one lower, so that way they, in other words some people they may already be up eight, they want eight, looking you just started eight, let’s give you the seva, can you, and you do this a few more, and next after two three months we’ll give you this one. So you kind of, that’s what they do in Bangalore, they start him off one lower then what they should qualify, that way they can quickly get the, cause already qualified for the next one, actually, just started to be qualified. So by giving them the one lower then very soon after a month or two they can give the next one, so they already feel like, I really made progress. But if you just gave them this one they just feel it will take a long time to get up to the next one. So it’s like a psychological, but if you, I mean the point that’s what we have the groups and we have the back up, you can make them way, it’s even you know if someone was a sadhak I met people devotees say, ‘well you know, I was a sevak so many years ago and I kind of fell down and left and now I come back’, anybody, it shows something they were, they had come up to that level. And usually if you have, with these groups I think will be protecting them much better. This problem happened more because there the temple wouldn’t take care of the people.

Devotee: I met recently ten persons who chanted 16 rounds over five years and they didn’t got somehow recognized. So it is now our duty from the leaders sorry, preachers, didn’t know whoever to got to them. Some people really shy because they think they are not qualified. So even if they chant fixed rounds and they’re really good persons

Jayapatākā Swami:

Ya so you give them, those people immediately give them Prabhupāda ashraya, so you were recognising, what they did in San Diego of California, America. They started similar program like this, they told that so many of our congregation is been practicing for so long, we’ve never recognised you. Everybody is like all the same but we know you are all not the same, some of you are much more committed. We wanted to give you this blessing and recognise you, that you have taken shelter of Prabhupāda and you are following his process and so then after that, then you can tell them you know that this is the process if you wanted to take shelter of a guru, you can! In fact anyone who’s been chanting over a year, even of they’re not chanting 16 rounds they can become an aspirant of a guru according to the GBC law we passed last year, this especially for kids and for congregation. Because sometimes what happens we get some I indian people, they maybe chanting so many years but they may be attached to one guru and they actually getting some benefit from that guru. And if they are considered like an aspirant that’s like, they accept the guru as a siksha guru. It’s almost like being on shelter but what we consider shelter means just, it’s just preparing for initiation and they’re not at that level yet, but they are accepting the guru as the siksha guru, so they have a bonafide relationship. And like little kids, little big kids, some of them don’t always chant 16 rounds for a long time but they may be attached to a particular guru, so by having that relationship it keeps them more fixed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So the GBC agreed and there is a system for that also that the local authority should consider, they are mature enough to make such a decision and that they can that’s, there’s aspirant and there is a guru ashraya. These are different tools that you can use to help people. Guru ashraya means shelter and aspirant means it’s like also kind of shelter but we don’t, we call it aspirant, aspiring to be under the shelter whatever.

(aside:) Yes Maharaj!

Sacinandana Swami: I want to ask about these blessings, these different blessings. Is that?

Jayapatākā Swami: On behalf of the deities, the deity is blessing them.

Sacinandana Swami: Ya the deity is blessing. How substantial is this in spiritual life? What, I think it’s wonderful to give recognition for different levels, I just wanted to know how…

Jayapatākā Swami: Well, we have been like we're just cheating people or something? It is that kind of a doubt or what?

Sacinandana Swami: Because they chant four rounds they cannot be considered cheap, but isn’t that they are blessed.

Jayapatākā Swami:

I mean it’s the temple president, he prays to the deity. Dear Gaura Nitāi, it’s given in front of the deity, ‘Dear Gaura Nitāi, please have Your blessings upon Bhakta Norman for, in his advancement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness,’ I don’t remember all the words, I’ll give it on the sheet, because for being a Kṛṣṇa sevak and chanting. I mean as the priest in the temple, you have the right to pray to the deities to give your blessings that they’ll have spiritual progress. And with such a request certainly will have some value, it’s not, they’re coming, I mean Kṛṣṇa definitely is gonna appreciate that they’ve taken some commitment. They come up in front of the deity and bow down and get some and the priest is praying to the deity to give blessing, it will have some value. I don’t know how to put it on a Kilo scale, (laughing) okay.

Devotee: How does counted in this group?

Jayapatākā Swami: How the couples counted?

Devotee: But it’s, we cannot divide them! They are like one or they’re separated over the (inaudible 19:29)

Jayapatākā Swami:

Many times in the Korean cell charts that have to show. He’s that the American cell charts they say 15 people and multiply. He’s the American, in Singapore’s put up the American guy, they are fanatic about that. The cell charts from Korea, who is the biggest, he said if the group gets a little bigger, it’s not a big problem because it’s successful, that not, not a worst problem. And he said should be 15 is a good standard or 15 couple which means 30 which is you know but may be the Koreans don’t talk much, I don't know I mean (laughing) whether they, so I just but, those are little flexibility there and that they use, that maybe you can have different numbers. But it seems that, you see there’s a kind of a scientific thing, I guess it would depend how active the husband and wives are. There’s a thing, say you have two people right, you have one communication line, isn’t it? Going like that. Now you put three people right, then you have six lines, three lines, three two ways and this now becomes six. You put over here and suddenly it’s increased, so there is a, some kind of form, now you got here 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12. So it’s something like this n2 - n = communication lines (laughing), formula (laughing). But as you add you know, we got here okay now so we’ll make a 8 group (laughing) and then you make you know 16. So after a while you got so many communication lines going, that this is when you get about 15 no longer become such a small group. That’s what the Americans point, but they Korean guys, no! You know okay this is the principle but it’s not biggest problem you know, you have to see that they, you say what’s more important is that there are trainee leaders ready to take into group, he just divide and is not ready, that’s a worst problem. The fact that your communication does not become intimate anymore. This is second thing but you should train up that the trainee leader is ready and then multiply, that’s what he stressed. So you have to work with families, if it’s a mixed group they're gonna stay together, you have to take that into consideration.

Devotee: Checking all young, if the senior preachers, the younger, means the junior preacher, if they are checking, if their preaching is like effective and the preacher in that sense, do they also like. Like they enter in the group then I spoke with him, new member and if they just ask him how to tell about the preaching of the junior member. So like that one can check how these junior members are doing and not like educated so much for preaching to the new member.

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

Ya! You can also, that’s part of the thing, if you wanna check and ensure that they’re been properly trained that everybody gets a good training that just being here at the down. That’s why the group leader meets with the young people because, cause you could see one of the young people so I can emerge even talk to him afterwards and give them special care. It’s not that the leader never talks with the new people but he, the basic thing someone said, but he still overseeing it and if there's some problem, he talks what’s the problem? Well you know actually this is the, I’m facing this problem and see this person is not helping me. And see where you can make switch also the person who’s guiding. It’s very highly interactive and mobile, even you may find one person is creating problem one group then shift him to another group. I just got information from Muscat that there was one group had all like, new people and so the discussion was not so nice. So what they did is they imported three senior and junior preachers from another group to bring up the standard of this one group and then the group became much nicer, so it’s like everybody was neophyte. And the leader, and the leader was having trouble cause I wanna talk about crazy things and it was hard to keep that thing and there was no, not senior people to, not enough senior people to keep it easily disciplined, so they adjusted like that. That’s way you can see that, as the things grow okay this repeat, but then remember this one.

So here we have your group leaders and everything but now we wanna discuss what happens when the group gets bigger and it, after multiplication, how does it’s managed. So here’s an overview, you have the group leader intern and you have the members. Then when we have three to five groups you put someone incharge, we call a sector senapati or in Bengali we call Upachakra and he has a trainee also., everybody has a trainee. So that way as things grow we have somebody take to next level. Then when you get, each of these are sectors, so when you have three to five sectors you have a circle senapati or coordinator and his trainee. So that’s your overview, now this is all coordinated by your Nāmahaṭṭa leaders from that. So how this works in a temple situation? Here we have ISKCON temple here would be a president or Nāmahaṭṭa director. You know in some places there may be no temple but you want to just have a Nāmahaṭṭa director, so he acts as if like a temple president for that region and he is a regional Nāmahaṭṭa director. So here we go, we’ve got already, you can have anywhere you know one group, four groups, three groups whatever, up to five groups say one person could oversee. So here the groups are being overseen by your president or through a director of Nāmahaṭṭa or by regional Nāmahaṭṭa director and he is overseeing., could be three, could be four. But when you get more, say you get six to ten, then like they did in Croatia, then they had two people, each was coordinating five. So this what we called Upa, this what we called sub sector coordinator. So see how kind of grows naturally like, if I just show I could show the whole figure, I could show the first and then it seems like, oh, this is too complicated and everything. So don’t have to worry. You just start off with how many groups, but when we get new groups it is natural then you divide in three to five and one person coordinates.

Sacinandana Swami: Do, what we have service?

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

What the coordinator does is, he is responsible to, every month he visits all of the groups once at least. If there’s any problem he’s the first one to come and see it, he has to give regular reports, he recommend people for sevaks and sadhaks, there the local president recommend, he has to approve it. If somebody say, one leader here is sick or some problem, he can step in and take charge of the group for him for some time. It’s like these group leaders are very new because groups expanding so quickly. So they may not feel so confident, they can always phone him up and say this is, I’m facing a problem, I got this new person came in here, his name is, you know, Rudhvik and he is a very tough guy! Every Time he’s just shouting and he wants to control the whole thing and I’m telling him please! We want to work in, I try to talk but he don’t care anything from me. So then the sector coordinator comes in and talks with rude bhakta Rudhvik. They please you know, then he shifts him out. Okay Rudhvik tell you what, you go over here with this group and that one, that guy he’s you know true leader and (laughing). So he can handle better, this was a too soft guy for Rudhvik. Or he may tell Rudhvik, you know Rudhvik, he’s very too advanced for these groups, you should be serving directly with the temple in their program. Because he’s not a team worker, these groups are for team people you know they have to be. One person wants to be like, it’s like in a football team, one guy always wants to take the ball, it's not gonna work, he have to pass it to other people and, isn’t it?

Okay now the groups have gone and we have got how many groups now? 13 groups! So now you made three sectors, or 13 groups here in one circle but you could have so many like these circles, so when you have two or three sectors you can make a circle coordinator. So it’s something that grows organically, I didn’t show that, more that person in, a friend in Singapore, he is up to the next level, district level and he said because now he has over several hundred groups and about 10,000 people. So about almost a 1000 groups he have about 800 or 600. So he said, now I have up to district level but I’m gonna start a new level, I think I’m gonna call it division and then region, and then the regions beyond, made a joke! In other words you can go on adding levels as many as you need, you know depending on, if you get 10,000 or 100,000 groups you better have a lot of levels right. Okay so we have up to this level already in Bengal, with 2000 groups we have taken it up to the district supervisor level and we have up to the regional.

Devotee: (inaudible)

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

No he goes around and sees the groups but there may be a over 100 groups in his area. Like some of our district supervisors in Bengal overseeing 200 groups. They may only, they may visit a group once in two years but what they do is, they have district summelans. And the circles have every three months, they have some big, there’s some bigger gatherings and that time the district supervisor comes and he speaks there. He’s a full time dedicated preacher but these are, you know house holders, many part time students, they were like part time preachers. They’re not, they are the congregation and this person is been sent. The district supervisor is a big job! Two 300 or more groups, it’s no joke. So here is a little overview. You can call any, we call coordinator, you can call it whatever you like, you know doesn’t really matter. That the idea is that they have every, there’s a whole science behind, everybody has some responsibility they can handle. I tried to put this here in english you have the level, first level as the group, there is second level we call english sector, in bengali we call it Upachakra, part of a circle. So this is average of the, you say four groups, three to five, roughly four, then third level circle or chakra that's like 12 and district, what we call it in sanskrit, mahachakra and division or a mālā, because 108. But what’s happen is sometimes in one district we don’t have enough people, we’ve just taken it up to here that this is congregation and we have too many people in district, that some district people are complaining, they got too many to handle. But if you do it more systematically then you can do in this way, could be any name.

So here’s, I’m gonna just give a overview because the most important thing we found is your circle level, this is where your hands on management really comes is the circle. So in the circle what happens is that your sector coordinator, he visits every group once a month. And that means in a quarter he’ll have visited, quarter meaning three months, so visit each group three times. Your circle will visit each group in one quarter once. Now we work this out that a grihastha, he’s already gonna meet, go to the temple he’s gonna have different kind of other meetings if he goes once a night, once a week to different groups then in twelve groups which is three months he can visit all the twelve groups. So it’s not like a load that’s too much for them to keep. Maybe two nights or may be some special preaching and one attending the different programs on rotation. So this circle is at this level what they can actually keep really in touch with what’s happening. Sectors, like every week is, every month is visited everyone and the circle. Why this is important I mean maybe it seems like okay this is another one of these too complicated. But I was explaining in the very beginning it you remember that when you make a group, the group is independent. You don’t have like a big brother 1984 you know, or well booked some, two way mere, you know they’re watching what they’re doing or something. You don’t know, end these on their own and you have put leaders you have faith in. But maybe some problem comes up over time because they are independent and you wanna be able to help them and not see them get lost.

So therefore having these kind of visits from other people keeps, it’s a way of keeping the link. And this is Bhaktivinoda Thakur’s system right out of his book. This is you know, it’s a way of giving autonomy and independence and still keeping contact, without this you don’t have contact. They have to give reports and you have people visiting them. They feel they’re taken care of, it’s not that they come again and you know like okay I’m your authority, it’s like an elder brother, elder sister. Someone coming in helping, seeing how things go, they're little more experienced. To be a sector leader you already were a group leader and have taken a group to two multiplications. That means you are more expert than that person who just maybe newly become a group leader, you can help him, look at this is how you know because it’s all happening so quick. If the groups grow so quickly then they might have lot of rough edges, they are not fully trained you know they are like more less trained. So their training goes on and then how to bring them up to the next level, the sector and the circle they can also give them further training. In once a month all the groups can get together and have a meeting with the sector leader and have a kind of a big meeting. That's what we call a sector mahamilan or great gathering. And that’s also exciting for them with a big harinam and something and you do it in the different places like in one week it may, one month maybe in one area, another area. So with a few devotees you can create a lot of action. Doesn’t not so boring, not the same thing there’s always, and once every three months or six months you do a big program with the circle.

(aside:) Ya!

Devotee: (inaudible)

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

We’ve been, that’s how they did it in Bengal and it’ve been, I can see now that there’s not, because we’ve never really trained the sector leader what they should do. And I’m not giving too much time for this year because until you get to that point which is maybe a year down the way what’s the use of saying so much now! You gonna forget everything, I’ll tell you anyway (laughing). But I’m just, it’s gonna be detailed in a bit but we did that, we found now what happens is that the person has to have a lot of extra time and lot of time there is conflict. If you really train up the sector leader what they have to do and they do all of that, they have enough to do. But what happens is sometimes you know people be a group leader you get more hands on control and sector zone more brahminical. So you have to choose the right person, you have to preach to them, see who can do that. So here’s your overview.

(aside:) Any other question?

Now What I was mentioning here, sector level once a month reunion, circle level a quarter big festival, district level, one or two training sessions and festivals per year. Sometimes in a circle level you may just have all the leaders come together and you go out and have some leaders and the trainee leaders and you have a nice association. Maybe go out or you’d have been to tower (laughing) whatever or some place and get together and they discuss and hear what the problems are, and it’s quick thing or sometime you may have a big festival with all the people coming together, organize circle festival. These are optional but these are things that we're doing and it works out pretty good. District level we have a training session also to bring all the leaders together and they get to see wow! There’s so many leaders and it’s, creates lot of enthusiasm. And then your whole temple should have a once a year at least a big mahā festival for other Namahattas, that’s a very enlivening thing.

(aside:) He has questions?

Devotee: (inaudible 35:46)

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

Well that’s your, they maybe, could be a problem case category. Lot of time it’s like failure in our part to use psychology with how to deal with the people. Like if people are given things to do that they like to do, like we heard today, we have over prasadam some discussion about varṇa and ashrama. And one of the things that they came up was, Naveen Kṛṣṇa prabhu said that Prabhupāda had told him how to tell what’s someone or someone can tell what is their varṇa. You know what he said? “What makes you happy and what else, when you do it you feel happy and you can do it easy”, then that show that’s like your nature. So I’m gonna share a little show here that tells what, how we can present through the life, through the members of the Nāmahaṭṭa. What is the philosophy, like the whole point is service attitude we hold nurturing, cultivating and propagation. So the cultivation means cultivating the service attitude. Now part of that is, in the discussion how everyone should take some responsibility, this whole taking some service to Kṛṣṇa that is a special dharma. That’s how we advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by taking some service for Kṛṣṇa. So throughout the whole program we’re trying to enthuse people that they should have a service attitude.

But then from the leaders point of view is, try to find what service is interesting. Maybe that person loves to sow but you keep asking that person to cut potatoes and maybe they have an infection on the hands and they don’t like to go there or maybe they always fight with the person who’s in the kitchen because they don't get along, I mean there may be some other reason behind it. So sometimes just talking to the person and saying you know you are very, and praising the person, you know ‘you are a very nice devotee, you chant so many rounds and I think you’re very serious about your spiritual life and you know how important it is that everyone takes some responsibility but I know that it should be something you like to do and just I like to hear from you! what is the kind of service that you are interested in doing or what?’ And then maybe the person you know thinks about it and comes up with somehow, I really like to do it right. Or sometime you may trick someone. In the meeting, in discussion you say, you read out a verse which says people should be engaged according to, cause you can choose the verse. You pick a verse like that and says you know people should be engaged according to their nature and everything and then in the discussion you already, you know have a few questions as the key note question for the discussion planted. And then people would start saying you know one of those things as we should do something that we like to do, for Kṛṣṇa we should offer something to Kṛṣṇa. So different people say well, can you share with us what are the things you like to do for Kṛṣṇa or if you could do anything you wanted for Kṛṣṇa, what you would do for Kṛṣṇa? And then you know ask someone else speaking some of that. But you really know this is the person that’s hardest to engage and he has that person. And what would you, if you could do anything you wanted for Kṛṣṇa, what would you like to do? Oh I really like to make flower arrangements you know. Really! Flower arrangements, right you know like. Who knows? There was something I really like to do drama! I love art! And may you can find the thing that will bring the person in. You know everybody is looking for their nature, I even know devotees in temple go from one service to another and then finally they get the thing they really like, truly their nature.

So that’s why this preaching, dealing with the people requires a lot of constant use of intelligence and meditation and that’s where the sector leader is a little more experienced. Where in the beginning there will be no sector leader, you’re the sector leaders, you are the organisers, so you have to guide, backup the group leaders and give them the training to be able to deal with the cases like that. You may have personally come and talked with the person and then the group leader wow! The Nāmahaṭṭa director, the director is so expert, I mean they knew exactly how to engage this person, I couldn’t figure it out. I think it’s like some mystic power you have. When you just you know, knowing you have to listen, lot of times we don't listen. We just tell people why don’t you do this? Why don’t you, but then sometime we have to hear from them, what do they realize, what do they want to do, what’s they are interested in. And then you can hear so many things they say and try to give them little bits to do and maybe some people though that are so lazy. I just think that there’s not so many that lazy. It’s that we’re not so expert in engaging them in the, sometimes you know he did a little bit and you praise him oh thankyou! You did wonderful and this was really great and then you know after a while they might feel more enlightened about doing it. But probably be and that’s where you got the P, p-problem or p. We expect that every group will have one lazy or crazy, but not too crazy, not too lazy, just you know but a little, you know, say you won’t put, you won’t tell him you’re a (laughing). You just say you are regular member, you are but somehow they never get promoted to junior preacher cause they they don’t want to, they don’t wanted to. So the idea of having the junior preacher and senior preacher they see everybody else coming by you know fired up and having talking about sankirtan and the preaching and another one, and another one. Pretty soon they say, actually I like to be a junior preacher too, really! Oh you can go out on Tuesday nights with one of the junior preachers and know how we do that then contagious when everybody is you know, I’ve been here for ten years and I’m still a regular member you know (laughing). Do Am I doing something wrong! (laughing)

(aside:) Ya!

Devotee: I have a basic question that it we have already devotees in the temple bhakta stage and you know initiated maybe one two years independent. But still we cannot even get them responsibility. It’s sometimes like this, as the temple president does any things even they can bring up the pick out of the way aside like this, so there is a control obviously. But now we should give you know persons who are just a few weeks or few months who is responsibility part of our group, that means that’s a distraction from our leaders above us have to train somehow, I mean how we break things? I mean social problem but also preaching one.

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

Well that’s a question that, I has to say, depends who you take in your temple as a bhakta. There are people in the army that are pirates for their whole life and there’s some people come up and become corporal, sargen, and Non commission officer things like that, it depends a lot on the initiative. In a group of intelligent people you should find the certain number of people willing to do. Now we are not talking about someone that joins and immediately they're gonna be the group leader. It may take two years to be group leader, may take one year, I don’t know one year would be pretty fast and might take two three years before they get to be a group leader. How long would it take, you need only one group leader a year, there’s twelve people. So it’s not like everybody should be a group leader in one year and you might go up a few, probably group leader would be when they’re initiated or at least they’re like Prabhupāda Ashray. Recently in Māyāpur I used to, in our workshop that they said, they are minimum should be like a Kṛṣṇa sadhaka but usually probably be even higher that that. It’s cause just the sadhakas, they’re eight rounds and altar and everything. It’s like a bare minimum but that preferred was you know at least a Prabhupāda ashraya or something like that. Of course if you start multiplying every three months like a Abhijan I recoursed and if your group grows so fast then we have to do lot of training programs like they’re doing in South Africa with these training programs, they have degrees and everything. To be a district leader what the christians do is they make a person go for one year for intensive theological training and then they put him on a salary and they are full time dependent people.

Devotee: Maharaj in some different places this program is going in different names, I mean like this is Nāmahaṭṭa they’re giving name, Shraddha Kutir and something. So it should be only Nāmahaṭṭa Maharaj?

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami:

Shraddha Kutir is another term, a shraddha kutir is, I didn't bring it up cause I don’t want to confuse things. But since you brought it up or just shraddha kutir is a term Bhaktivinoda Thakur used for a whole family being Kṛṣṇa conscious. And we use this, that in our Namahattas when you get a whole family that’s Kṛṣṇa conscious, it’s a separate category, you call it a Shraddha kutir. So the whole family, husband, wife and kids the whole family is Kṛṣṇa conscious then you give like certify okay you are shraddha kutir. And that’s like that you know that’s a lot better than say just you got husband Kṛṣṇa conscious and the wife is you know, okay you can go but I’m not interested, that’s not so nice or just a wife, it’s like more, you know it’s limited. But if you, so we try to encourage, you try to reward them and appreciate you know if their whole family becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious then you’re shraddha kutir. And that if you have in a group many shraddha kutirs then we feel that that’s a success rating, that’s very good.

Devotee: It’s Nāmahaṭṭa only

Jayapatākā Swami:

Ya! This is a detail, this is one of our sub-program within the Nāmahaṭṭa. In some places you just have one family, you probably have that in some towns there’s one family and nobody else is a devotee. But this is one family that’s fired up and they’re doing pūjā and they got altar in the house. You ever have find that little village some place like that? So that we call it a shraddha kutir and they are like kind of a representative.

(aside:) Thank You very much! They work so hard, we have to give a hand for the two bhaktas (clapping) copying machine and the rishi and bhakta Rene. What's your name prabhu? Bhakta

Devotee: Benard