20200621 Question-and-Answer session with ISKCON CDM on the Preaching Strategy of Bhaktivinoda Thakura

20200621 Jayapatākā Swami Guru Maharaj, Addressing the Congregational Development Meeting on Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Śrī Māyāpur Dham, India.

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ

paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim

yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande

paramānanda-mādhavam

Śrī Caitanya Īśvaram

So Iksavaku prabhu, shoot!

 His Grace Iksavaku prabhu: Jai guru maharaj, please accept our respectful obeisances, on behalf of the Congregational Development Ministry. We want to Welcome and thank you for giving us your time and guidance in honoring Śrīla Prabhupāda and the paramparā.

Today is Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura’s disappearance day and we would like to request you as ISKCON Congregational Co-Minister, to elaborate on the important topics regarding Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura’s contribution to the expansion of this saṅkīrtana movement. So, the first question is:

 Devotee: Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Thakur is revered as the pioneer of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So, in honoring his legacy, today on his disappearance day, we would like to hear from you what does it really mean to follow his footsteps?

 His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: You see, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura reestablished the will of Lord Nityānanda. Lord Nityānanda had, under the order of Lord Caitanya, returned to Bengal and He established the Namahatta. Especially, the headquarters was in Surabi Kuñja, Godrumadvip. Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he reestablished the Namahatta, the congregational movement. At that time there were not much results. There were a few temples.

So, he established the Namahatta, that people being gṛhasthas, they should preach, they should practice and, in this way, he promoted the congregational moment. He himself was a grihasta, but he was very careful to preach. That time was the English rule, and he was working as a magistrate under the English. He was very appreciated and very expert in his professional life. But he would use maximum time for expanding the saṅkīrtana movement, writing books and songs, and he established the Namahatta. He found the birthplace of Lord Caitanya, many contributions. He predicted how the Navadvīpa parikrama would one day have foreigners, English, Americans, Russians, all varieties of people, and they would all forget any kind of caste consciousness, national

consciousness and just chant the name JAI SACINANDANDA! JAI GAURAHARI! GAURĀṄGA! NITYĀNANDA! And all these things were unimaginable in the British rule. But he predicted and it all happened.

 His Grace Iksavaku prabhu: Thank you guru maharaj. You mentioned that Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was a gṛhastha, he had many, many children, he had a job, he had many regular responsibilities. How can today’s gṛhastha, family people, married devotees, learn from his super excellent example? How can we follow those sorts of examples?

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: There are people who give seminars on time management. They charge lots of money but if you want to be inspired by time management, just see the life of Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura! He was very well organized! He had time set aside for his family, to write books, to do his business, to do his preaching and do his japa.

So, his time management was amazing!

How he did everything very properly?

And he was very expert in his business, his business of course as a magistrate, he had to judge people. And his cases were so well written that when he won, they did not turn over his cases to the higher courts. I would think that the gṛhastha of today, they can learn from Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. How to manage their time, how to utilize every second in a proper way? He gave time for his family, he gave time for his children, he had also time for his preaching, his writing. And for his business. Everything was very well organized.

 His Grace Iksavaku prabhu: Thank you guru maharaj. You mentioned also how Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura reestablished Kṛṣṇa consciousness in India in the 19th century. And he is known as the precursor of the revival of the saṅkīrtana movement, in this modern age through the Namahatta.

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: You see, Lord Caitanya’s movement continued to spread for about 200 years. But gradually, apa sampradāyas started to become prominent. There were 13 apa sampradāyas at the time of Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and basically no gentlemen would like the vaiṣṇavas because they did all kinds of weird things.

Like the Bouls, they said their body is a microcosm of Kṛṣṇa. So, they put stool on this tilak and things. They said everything the body produces is impure! So, he reestablished Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the proper way. And so, he brought respect and he also went against the various apa sampradāyas. Then he reestablished the Namahatta and he was very well organized. Namahatta was having sectors, sector leaders, district leaders, state leaders. So, he had a very systematic way of preaching Namahatta. I tried to write some of that in the Gaudruma Kalpa Tavi.

 His Grace Iksavaku prabhu: Thank you guru maharaj. Now you mentioned the Namahatta, what does exactly Namahatta mean?

As I understood it is the marketplace of the holy name. Can you please describe further what the Namahatta actually is – is it some extraordinary marketing strategy or there is something else to it?

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: You see, the chanting of the holy name

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare,

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare,

is mentioned in all the scriptures, as the method in the Kali yuga of performing sacrifice. So Namahatta was based on this distribution of the holy name, but he said that it is not for sale for ordinary money. It could be purchased by one’s faith, depending on how much faith you have, you can get that standard of the nāma. So, although the process was very simple, having people to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa together, read the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, practice bhakti yoga or devotional service, but the philosophy was very deep. And in this way, people did not have to change, gṛhasthas would remain as gṛhastha, they added Kṛṣṇa to their lives.

Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda said in the future ISKCON would be like that. There would be a few devotees in the temple, most of the gṛhastha would be living outside. And he told me in Māyāpur that we would have many gṛhastha, but at that time we had mainly brahmacārīs. So, I wondered how we would have many gṛhastha?

Śrīla Prabhupāda told me, THINK BIG! THINK BIG! And we see that Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura he had many gṛhastha as devotees. Śrīla Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati Ṭhākura, he had maṭhas which were mainly sannyāsīs, brahmacārīs and widows. But he mentioned about Namahatta.

So Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was the one who started Namahatta. So that is why we consider him the, you can say, the founder of the modern congregational movement. Now, today we had the Saraswat Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava Sangha, meeting and talking on the glories of Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. It was nice to hear all the swamis speak. And they had so many things to glorify. They said how Śrīla Prabhupāda, Bhaktivedanta Swami Goswami Prabhupāda, he had spread the message all over the world. But this message was established by Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. In a sense that it had been lost, almost because of the apa sampradāyas.

So, he reestablished the siddhānta or conclusion of the scriptures, and he engaged all the gṛhastha in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. While he established gṛhastha, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta did sannyāsīs and brahmacārīs and Śrīla Prabhupāda did both!

 His Grace Iksavaku prabhu: Guru maharaj, you mentioned the Godruma Kalpatavi. We know that Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was a prolific writer and you have commented only one of his books, and we hope you comment on many more. But regarding the Śrī Godruma Kalpatavi, what is its importance and what can we learn from that book? Can you please explain?

 His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: You see, I asked Śrīla Prabhupāda, that whether we should use all the kīrtana groups in Bengal, and engage them in devotional service? And he encouraged me and gave me some instructions how to do that. I didn’t know what to call the effort. See the Godruma Kalpatavi is five chapters. From the Namahatta of Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. But that was published in the Gauḍīya Patrikā and their president was Abhay Caran Bhakti Vedānta Gaura Vanacari. Śrīla Prabhupāda when he was in vanaprasta. So, I was very inspired that this was something that Śrīla Prabhupāda had authorized. So, I called the effort as Namahatta. And so, we have urban Namahattas, small groups, which we call bhakti vṛkṣas and the original Namahatta was in the village called Namahatta. Because I translated this, because it was both Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura’s work plus it was given by Śrīla Prabhupāda. So, although there are many books, but this one, because we wanted to do congregational preaching, because this was approved by Śrīla Prabhupāda, we thought that this should be our priority for now.

 His Grace Iksavaku prabhu: Thank you guru maharaj. Guru maharaj you earlier referred to

Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura preaching in very adverse circumstances, when the British were ruling India. Sometimes as gṛhastha, we may say face different kinds of opposition in some circumstances, some cultures may accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness to different extents. How can we learn from Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, what were his strategies in dealing with opposition and successfully preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: As I said before, in his professional life or service for the government, he was very efficient and responsible. So, for that reason the British, they were happy with him. At the same time, to the Bengalis, he preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Like that some of our devotees work in the Middle East, they used to do their work very good, very nicely, very responsibly, but in their free time, they also preach to their fellow expatriates. So, like that, you see since our method is based on the Vedas, for the Indians, they shouldn’t have a problem, since they are supposed to accept the Vedas. For others, we have to be a little more tactful.

But we can learn from Śrīla Prabhupāda, he presented that this was a very authorized system. And so, in that way, he convinced people. And also, they experienced the happiness. So even if there are some obstacles – Lord Caitanya faced obstacles. There were many atheists and nonbelievers, they put different obstacles up. So, in one sense, one time Lord Caitanya did civil disobedience to the Cand Kazi, and depending on the situation, the time and the place, He would use different methods.

So BIracandra, the son of Lord Nityānanda, he was arrested by the Nawab of Bengal. The nawab’s sister was crazy. He said, can you cure her? And he said, yes. The Nawab said if you cure her, I will release you. If you don’t cure her, I will kill you. And he cured her. I don’t think we face such challenges! Such difficulties! So, if we have some person like – Lord Caitanya when He did kīrtana, even the nonbelievers, the atheists when they saw His kīrtana, their hearts melted, they started chanting and dancing.  And some of them rolled on the ground!

So, Lord Caitanya had that power! Now when He went in the Jarikanda forest, the animals, the tigers and the deer, they were all chanting and they were kissing each other. All had love. So, Śrīla Prabhupāda said, this is possible for Lord Caitanya, but maybe not for us! We cannot go to a tiger and say, please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa! He may eat us!

But Śrīla Prabhupāda was saying, at least we should get the humans to chant! We saw how the big protests are going around the world recently, against racism. But actually, the human beings are killing animals. Billions of animals are killed every day and this present pandemic comes from the animals. Because we are mistreating animals, the disease jumped from the animals to the human beings. About 8 to 9 million people are affected. 460 thousand something are dead. And there is no end in sight. So, people should chant the holy name and pray to Kṛṣṇa that please forgive us for our offence. Just try to please Kṛṣṇa, in that way, it will change the whole world!

 His Grace Iksavaka prabhu: Guru maharaj, if you don’t mind, I want to ask you a personal question. Your role in fulfilling Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura’s prediction and obviously Śrīla Prabhupāda has accomplished that and you have been very instrumental in this. What is your realization in seeing all these predictions becoming a reality in all these decades of you being one of the main leaders of the ISKCON movement, and how can we all contribute to further in this legacy from Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura?

His Holiness Jayapataka Swami: Some of the predictions, like someone would come and go from one continent to the next very easily, that was realized by Srila Prabhupada. Then Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura predicted that the Navadvipa parikrama would be attended by the people from India and foreign origins. And they would embrace each other chanting JAI SACINANDANA! JAI SACINANDANA! Imagine this, he predicted this in the English time, they would not be considering any caste, creed or nationality. So, this was started by Srila Prabhupada.

I am just carrying out his orders and gradually we saw that the Navadvipa parikrama has expanded and increased. We have seven groups now. Four from India and three are foreigners – at least two.

So, it is very inspiring to see Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s predictions coming true, before your eyes! I think every devotee, that they will be very inspired to see this. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura had also written a book on the Navadvipa parikrama. And he quoted Lord Nityananda who said, Ek adbutha mandir hoibe  prakasha, Gauranger Nitai seva hoibe vikas. There will be a wonderful temple which will manifest, and that would spread the religion of Lord Caitanya throughout the world.

So, Srila Prabhupada said we should build the Temple of Vedic Planetarium. I am trying to help, and every devotee should help. So, like this, we are trying to spread the sankirtana movement around the world. And this was Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s desire, it was Srila Bhaktisiddanta Prabhupada Thakura’s desire, and this is Abhay Caran Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada’s desire!

So, Mayapur is doing day after a virtual Ratha Yatra throughout the world. We hope that every member of the congregational movement will please register themselves on the website. The website is www.mercyonwheel.com Not wheels, wheel. Mercyonwheel.com. Mercyonwheel.com. If you haven’t registered, register now! Even if you are in lockdown in some place, we will go there. One ratha would become 108 rathas! And we will go around the world, in every continent, in every country, where we have registrations. Don’t miss this opportunity!

 His Grace Mahāvarāha prabhu: If you are doing with the questions, we can open it to the audience to take questions, three questions from the audience?

 His Grace Iksavaku prabhu: Sure.

 His Grace Mahāvarāha prabhu: Devotees, if you have any questions, you can all write in the chat box your questions. We have 187 participants on Zoom and about 100 watching live on Facebook.

 Devotee: From Shantagopi devī dāsī. Dear guru maharaj. PAMRO. AGTSP! Amongst the Navadvipas, Ritudvipa, Jahnudvīpa and Modadrumadvipa apparently seem far away. Do they touch Antardvīpa directly as the part of the eight petals surrounding Antardvīpa?

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Originally all the dvīpas touched Antardvīpa. But the different rivers have shifted over the years. And so, it may look like that. But actually, if you see, each dvīpa is next to the other dvīpa. And they go, eight islands around Antardvīpa. Even if the Modadrumadvipa looks like it is far away from Antardvīpa, actually Modadrumadvipa is after Jahnudvīpa and then after Modadrumadvipa is the Rudradvīpa. So, all the islands go around the Antardvīpa. Next question.

 Devotee: Medhāvini Sakhi devī dāsī. My question is what are the top three things that we can learn from Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura’s life?

That we can practice as gṛhastha to perfect our lives?

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: I don’t know if I have in perfect order. There are many things we can learn from Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He wrote a prayer based on the līlā of how Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura’s son died. And how Lord Caitanya brought the son back to life. And how the son was speaking from the Absolute platform. So there Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was saying that I feel very fearful, that somehow if I forget Kṛṣṇa, then I will be caste in this illusion of māyā. One thing we can learn is that, even as a gṛhastha, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is totally surrendered to Lord Caitanya and His associates! And the other thing was that he knew the śāstra completely well, and he wrote books in Bengali and English and he sent them around the world.

Actually, in Canada I was in Montreal and in McGill University, his book was there! So, he had sent his books around the world. We also know that how he engaged in the Namahatta himself. He took a position of service in Namahatta. So, he was also expert in time management. And he did all the things a gṛhastha had to do. Took care of his family, his work, he saw people, he wrote books and songs, he performed his devotional service.

 His Grace Mahāvarāha prabhu: Guru maharaj you said, he wrote songs and books. Connected to that we have a question. From Naresh Caitanya. Hare Kṛṣṇa maharaj.  (Guru maharaj said: HAREEE KṚṢṆA!) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura’s books are mostly high philosophy. So, would it be appropriate for anyone to read them?

 His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: You see, first we would like everyone to read Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books, because his books are very simple and it gives us the basic foundation. Of course, I translated the Godruma Kalpatavi, that was authorized by Śrīla Prabhupāda. It was mainly the practical aspects of Namahatta. To study his philosophical books, we should first have the basic understanding as given by Śrīla Prabhupāda.

So, he had to establish Kṛṣṇa consciousness in a high, philosophical manner, to convince the different elite of Bengal. So, right now, people are not so philosophical astute. They are used to watching movies and TV and they don’t have so much concentration. They don’t have much philosophical basis. So, that way, reading the Bhagavad-gītā is more important, then after that they can go on, read the Bhagavad-gītā, read Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, and Caitanya Caritāmṛta, they can appreciate the works of Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura.

 His Grace Mahāvarāha prabhu: Very nice guru maharaj. So now we go for the last question tonight. From, Anirudh Gopal das from Kṛṣṇa Kathā desh. (Guru maharaj: Wow!) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura worked in Odisha but we don’t get to hear the names of vaiṣṇava saints from Odisha as much as we hear from Bengal.

Any specific reasons?

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was born in Bīrnagar of Nadia district. But later he worked in Odisha. He was the first administrator of the Jagannath Purī temple. Now in the Caitanya Caritāmṛta, there are many associates of Lord Caitanya who lived in Jagannath Purī. Like Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Rāmānanda Rai, and many like Sikki Māhiti. We may not recognize who is from Bengal, who is from Odisha. But there are many from Odisha. But Lord Caitanya, He was born in Navadvīpa dham. Many of His associates appeared in Bangladesh, in Bengal. So, we are trying to get the holy places of His associates’ places. In Bangladesh, we have been very active. We got the birthplace of Puṇḍarīka Vidyānidhi, Mukunda and Vāsudeva Datta, the birthplace of Advaita Gosāin, Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura, Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda, we have Their places in Bengal.

We have our temple in Māyāpur. We have our temple also in Ekacakra dhāma. Still the only place we don’t have a temple is Gadādhara Prabhu’s place. I told them in Bangladesh to look for that. I told them what village it is. But we have Śacī Mata’s birthplace. We have a temple nearby. We have a temple nearby Rūpa and Sanātana’s birthplace. We have land near Haridāsa Ṭhākura’s birthplace. We have a temple in Bengal, Haridaspur. We are trying to get the different places of the associates of Lord Caitanya. Where there are temples it is alright, but if there is nothing, we are thinking how to get that. How to preserve it. And so gṛhasthas can help us in that, if they like.

 His Grace Mahāvarāha prabhu: Alright, Iksavaku prabhu, could you please do the closing of this session.

 His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Can we see the gala review, wow! (saw all the wonderful participants). Read some of the names.

Haribol!

That is Iksavaku das from Perth!! Any realizations, please write to Iksavaku prabhu. If you have any further questions and leave your email ids.

His Grace Iksavaku prabhu: On behalf of the Congregational Development Ministry, we want to thank His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami guru maharaj for leading the congregational preaching in ISKCON for the past five decades or so and we would also invite everyone to visit ISKCON congregation.com and the same name on Facebook, YouTube. We are producing videos, we are producing articles, many of the resources and articles that guru maharaj has referred to. In this month we have a special offering for the book that guru maharaj has referred to – The Śrī Godruma Kalpatavi for a tiny donation, for supporting the congregational office. You can download it from our webpage. We want to thank you all for your support and all glories to the congregational preaching! Thank you guru maharaj and thank you Mahāvarāha prabhu.

 His Grace Mahāvarāha prabhu: Sarvasvarup prabhu, do you have anything to say?

His Grace Sarvasvarup prabhu: Thank you very much for your patience. Thank you very much for your guidance and all glories to the congregational preaching! And thank you to all the devotees who are supporting the work of the congregational ministry. Hare Kṛṣṇa!

 His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Thank you, there is a special virtual Ratha Yatra!

 His Grace Mahāvarāha prabhu: Up to this morning we had a report that we had devotees from 80 different countries have registered for this virtual ratha yatra and more than six thousand devotees from all around the world have registered. So, don’t miss your chance. Go to www.mercyonwheel.com. Please register yourself as soon as possible, so that you get the darshan of Lord Jagannath, Baladeva and Subadra!

His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami: Haribol!

 His Grace Mahāvarāha prabhu:

vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca

patitānāḿ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ