19941026 Bhagavad-gītā 18.55

Bhagavad-Gita 18.55

Type Of Talk:

Evening Class

Date:

Wednesday, October 26, 1994

Collection:

Enlightenment 7

Audio player:

19941026_Bhagavad-Gita.18.55_Philadelphia

The following is a class given by His Holiness Jayapataka Swami October 26th, 1994, in Philadelphia, Pensylvenia. The class begins with a reading from the Bhagavat Gita, 18th Chapter, 55th verse. bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā viśate tad-anantaram One can understand Translation from Sanskrit to English One can understand Me as I am, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of Me by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God.

Purport: Translation with repetition: JPS: One can understand Me as I am Devotees : One can understand Me as I am JPS: as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Devotees: as the Supreme Personality of Godhead JPS: only by devotional service. Devotees: only by devotional service. JPS: And when one is in full consciousness Devotees: And when one is in full consciousness JPS: of Me Devotees: of Me JPS: by such devotion Devotees: by such devotion JPS: he can enter into Devotees: he can enter into JPS: the kingdom of God. Devotees: the kingdom of God. JPS: Purport by His Divine Grace Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada Devotee: Jay The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, and His plenary portions cannot be understood by mental speculation nor by the nondevotees. If anyone wants to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has to take to pure devotional service under the guidance of a pure devotee. Otherwise, the truth hidden... the truth of the Supreme Personality of Godhead will always be hidden. As already stated in Bhagavad-gītā (7.25), nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya: He is not revealed to everyone. No one can understand God simply by erudite scholarship or mental speculation. One who is actually engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service can understand what Kṛṣṇa is. University degrees are not helpful. There is ah... long purport, attach each paragraph. The first point is that Krishna only reveals Himself to those who are trying to be His devotees, or who are His devotees without doing devotional service or without being a devotee of the Lord, He is not obliged to reveal Himself. Krishna is residing in the spiritual world which is far beyond this material world and in order to understand Him, He has to reveal himself. There is two kinds of knowledge, there is the deductive knowledge and there is the inductive knowledge. Normally in the material world people know things by deductive knowledge. You see so many evidences, just like you are going to see...they test animals, after testing10,000 animals, if nobody, none of them develops any sickness, then they think, “Ok it is sick”, that’s the deductive. For instance, say for example in Europe they have swans, some scientists they may study a thousand swans and find out all swans are white, so the deductive understanding is swans are white, but if you go to Australia they have the black swan, and the whole theory is thrown out of the window. In this way you try to understand things in this universe by analysing and deducting. You see so many people like this you come up with a theory. That has got some relative value in the material world, but when you want to know which is beyond the material. Something which is beyond birth, beyond death, beyond material time, in a totally different dimension, then deductive knowledge it doesn’t reach it. Even in this world for things of which we don’t have enough information about, or that we don’t have the correct information about, you still are not sure about...just like you don’t know what is Venus, what is on Mars, you are trying to figure it out, even what’s in the sun. So in a few days of having a full solar eclipse, so millions of people are going to stay up, are going to watch in the morning when they have the solar eclipse and I heard that hundreds of scientists are flying to South America to study the full solar eclipse. And so they still don’t know what exactly happens on the sun. So it is worth their effort to go there and study solar eclipses. So what to speak of... we don’t even know about the nearest planets next to the earth, exactly what’s going on, how do you know what the supreme Lord is doing in the highest spiritual planet if He doesn’t tell us? So inductive knowledge means that which is handed down. There might be a noise upstairs. Prabhupada used this example a lot. Say you are hearing a tapping and someone may say what is happening. Somebody is bouncing a ball on the floor, someone may say why think somebody is actually doing aerobic exercise jumping up and down, someone else may say, “Why think?”, you know, what they are really doing is that they are dancing. You really don’t know what they are doing until someone goes up or someone comes down from there and says this is what they are doing. You are having a fight and he is pounding the head of the other person on the floor. So get information from someone who knows, that is considered full-proof method. In trying to interpolate, to speculate, to deduct, there is always a certain question, certain error factor has to be taken. Like you do the poll, they say .6.30.. of 1800 people and they come up with a resolve .......opinion. Error factor, plus or minus 5%. If you ask everybody in America what their opinion is, then you have a zero error factor but they don’t........possible. If you want to know what exactly is going on in the kingdom of God, you can ask everybody but you are going to have a 100% error factor because nobody knows except for the Lord and His representatives who come down from that plane, or Krishna, it is very important to understand that . That why, sometimes people say that, you are being dogmatic, it’s not dogmatic, it’s reality, we can’t know what is going on outside this universe except we receive information from Krishna. That’s why the Vedas are so important, because books like the Bhagavat Gita are actually revelation, actually Krishna actually came down in the form of a great sage called Vyasadeva and He wrote down all the Vedas. So they are actually written, of course Bhagavat Gita was spoken directly by Krishna, and then it was written down by Vyasadeva. Other Vedas were written down by Vyasadev giving different historical accounts, philosophical explanations about the world we live in, about dimension beyond this world, and about the spiritual world. This are considered the revealed words of God, that actually very scientific method of getting knowledge because this is the only method that works, when you are dealing with something which is beyond normal observation. One who is fully conversant with the Krsna science, Prabhupada continues here...becomes eligible to enter into the spiritual kingdom, the abode of Kṛṣṇa. Becoming Brahmand does not mean that one loses his identity. Devotional service is there, and as long as devotional service exists, there must be God, the devotee, and the process of devotional service. Such knowledge is never vanquished, even after liberation. Liberation involves getting free from the concept of material life; in spiritual life the same distinction is there, the same individuality is there, but in pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One should not mistakenly think that the word viśate, “enters into Me,” supports the monistic theory that one becomes homogeneous with the impersonal Brahman. No. Viśate means that one can enter into the abode of the Supreme Lord in one’s individuality to engage in His association and render service unto Him. For instance, a green bird enters a green tree not to become one with the tree but to enjoy the fruits of the tree. Impersonalist’s generally give the example of a river flowing into the ocean and merging. This may be a source of happiness for the impersonalist, but the personalist keeps his personal individuality like an aquatic in the ocean. We find so many living entities within the ocean, if we go deep. Surface acquaintance with the ocean is not sufficient; one must have complete knowledge of the aquatics living in the ocean depths. Because of his pure devotional service, a devotee can understand the transcendental qualities and the opulences of the Supreme Lord in truth. As it is stated in the Eleventh Chapter, only by devotional service can one understand. The same is confirmed here; one can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead by devotional service and enter into His kingdom. After attainment of the brahma-bhūta stage of freedom from material conceptions, devotional service begins by one’s hearing about the Lord. Everybody knows what brahma-bhuta means. Brahma-bhuta means, when one is identifying with the spirit. Brahma means the spirit of the absolute. The Brahama-bhuta, when we actually realise that I am not the body, but I am the living force, in the body I am the spirit force in the body, that is called the brahma-bhuta. So that’s the stage of freedom from material conceptions. When one hears about the Supreme Lord, automatically the brahma-bhūta stage develops, and material contamination – greediness and lust for enjoyment – disappears. As lust and desires disappear from the heart of a devotee, he becomes more attached to the service of the Lord, and by such attachment he becomes free from material contamination. In that state of life he can understand the Supreme Lord. This is the statement of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also. After liberation the process of bhakti, or transcendental service, continues. The Vedānta-sūtra (4.1.12) confirms this: ā-prāyaṇāt tatrāpi hi dṛṣṭam. This means that after liberation the process of devotional service continues. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, real devotional liberation is defined as the reinstatement of the living entity in his own identity, his own constitutional position. The constitutional position is already explained: every living entity is a part-and-parcel fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord. Therefore his constitutional position is to serve. After liberation, this service is never stopped. Actual liberation is getting free from misconceptions of life. 12.13 Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta Swami translation and purport of text 55, Chapter 18 , Bhagavat Gita as it is, the perfection of renunciation. Some of these is quite technical. It’s important to understand what is liberation. Srila Prabhupada tells a story how when he was a young man, he was in the Gandhi’s movement for liberating India from the British, like a revolutionary movement to get the British out of India to be independent country. When he went to his spiritual master, the spiritual master told him, you should go to America and you should give them Krishna consciousness, you should give them this wisdom, and he said, “ what will they care to hear from a person from a country which is just a colony, which is not independent, which is not liberated.” , and then Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, his guru-to-be told him that, “Well, even if you change the political set up, whether it is the British or the Indian government, but the basic problems of life, birth, death, old age and disease, they are not going to be liberated from that. Life is going to continue on with this conditions. Real liberation is to be free from this conditions of the material life- birth, death, old age, disease. This is what actual liberation means. This has been further explained, not only to be liberated from the material conditions, but to actually return to our original conditional...spiritual condition, or constitutional position. Before we enter into the material world what our original spiritual relationship with Krishna was, to return to that spiritual position, back to Godhead, this is higher form of liberation, than actually to know, to have that loving relationship with Krishna, with all of the friends of Krishna, that is a full liberation known as love of Godhead or Krishna Prema. So the question is what do we... do with our lives. The Vedas are telling us that as human beings we should try to get liberated from the conditional life and achieve our eternal life or liberated life. But of course a lot of pressures of every day life, they are pulling us on and people tend to not even think about where they are going or what’s happening, and they are just living for the moment so to say. This is something like the example of the children who were flying kite on the roof, you know that example, here in Philadelphia they fly kites? In India it is very popular in the winter to fly kites, there is a very good breeze comes in the winter, and so people, thousands of people are flying kites, and specially in India, they...in the cities many houses have flat roofs, so you can up to your roof and then you can fly the kite from the roof, and India most of the roofs are sloped. There they are flat, now what happened was that once there was a house that was under construction, about four story building and there were just flat slabs, just the structure was there, somehow the children go into the construction site, got up on the roof and they were flying kites. So they were so into it, the one was going higher and they were having some kind of kite battle, trying to put glass on the thread with glue so that that when you try to go, then you cut the other persons string and then their flight goes, so they are really it, going higher, fighting, there is a whole sport. So what was happening is that they kind of lost track that they were stepping and back and back, they were just looking up at the kite and there was...they had actually come dangerously close to the edge of the flat roof that had no parapet wall, there is no nothing...a flat roof. One gentleman was walking by, he saw that the children are right there next to the edge, and they were so absorbed in the kite flying that they are not seeing that at any moment they can fall off the roof. So he ran up to the top as quick as he could, and just at that... at that time the boy with the kite, to get a little extra pull on the kite, kind of back up a little bit . So he had backed up and one of his feet was actually stepping off the roof, so he was just...just putting his weight on that foot, you know a few second, if he put the full weight on the foot and then he will fall down four storeys and most likely he will die. So the man ran and just at that moment he grabbed the kid, pulled him off the site, saved his life, certain death. You think all the kids were real happy about that? What do you think. No they were all yelling at him, you are so 17.42, this and that, because the kite had flew out of the kids hand and the kite was flying off and they were so angry, “Look where our kite went, whenever we are going to get it back.” “Look you had almost killed yourselves you know, they didn’t... they didn’t even the 17.56 on what was happening, they are still thinking about their kite, “you ruined our kite, yelling at him, what have you done, let go off my friend” Then the parents were next door, they looked out of the window and they saw this man yelling at this kid yelling at him, “What are going to do to my son, are you a child abuser?” So he was like you know, everybody is getting...he just saved the kids life and everyone was getting at him. He finally tells his parents, “Look at your children, they are on a empty roof, they almost fell off while flying kite, explaining what he did, ok someone..”, then they started to appreciate. It was after quite some ... getting blasted by everyone, for no reason they know. So there is a lot of... So who are the children who are flying the kite, there is an analogy. Who can you compare the children in material life. Devotee: Non devotees, people who won’t come to the spiritual master, won’t come to Krishna consciousness. JPS: What do you think? Devotee: People have lost the good quality.

JPS: People who are preoccupied with their sense gratification. They are going for their immediate happiness and not seeing that you know...death is waiting around the corner, what are the dangers of life, what are the realities, they are just preoccupied, yes that is true. And who is the person who came and saved him? The preacher. Krishna conscious preacher, he goes...but none of them are appreciated it at first, they were angry, what are you doing, interrupting our play, right? Sometimes when a preacher tries to go and explain people, what about their real purpose in life, whats...how they can escape this repeated birth and death, how they can escape the cycle of reincarnation, the people think you know this people are trying having fun. They think that the kids were having fun. We were...we were doing harinam in Neworleans and then Channel 8, newscaster film they said, “Will you be on the 10’o clock news, then turning on the TV to see the news and then ah... we are trying to find the station. It came on that some program called Trauma Centre, I don’t know if it is a national program or local. Trauma centre had shown people go bloody coming into the emergency ward and everything. It is happening everyday, 20.32 crying mother with the baby, some man who fell of the boat, his back was twisted and he was screaming. (laughter) In this way the people rather watching the violence, than watching the... the real version.20.48-49 . This is going on every day. There is so much suffering that is going on, side by side with the happiness and the suffering, you don’t have to look very far, so this children were ready to the trauma centre, they were just ready to fall off and they were saved. Later they could appreciate, at least parents... someone could appreciate. Lot of time the preacher is not well appreciated at first, people don’t understand what is the purpose, but after people realize what they were saved from, then can appreciate. It may take some time. So what we are trying to do, to get people to that liberated state beyond all the traumas of the material world. Lord Caitanya requested His followers to go preaching, to save young people, old people, men, woman, everyone from the sufferings of old age, disease, death and rebirth. Someone gives this wisdom to others then he is recognises by Lord Caitanya as a devotee, but one recognizes as a devotee then they can, at it is mentioned in this verse, they can understand the mysteries about Krishna, and enter into the spiritual world. That’s why the devotees go through a lot of ... a lot of pain, to trying to give this message to others, because this is Lord Caitnaya’s special request, trying to liberate people from the suffering. Sometimes it may not be appreciated, but anyway that person he didn’t regret, even if the people are yelling at him, he didn...he didn’t........he saved the child’s life, whether they appreciate it or not it didn’t make any difference, because still he wouldn’t have done it any differently. Wouldn’t have let the child fall even though they screamed at him after, he was still trying to save their life, and if they do appreciate of course it is very nice, but even if they don’t the devotee is going to try to help people. That’s why Krishna then wants to feel so indebted to His devotees, because the devotees without, whether he get material reciprocation or not, he simply selflessly go on trying to help people out of their suffering. A lot of times this process of devotional service is something very unique. It’s a fun process. This is a type of process, there is not any difficulty. The process is to engage all of our different activities, our abilities, our creativity, our personality whatever, engage everything in Krisha’s service, through unlimited varieties of services we can utilize whether music, whether art, whether drama, whether practical work, writing, computation whatever we can use. Any kind of service or ability, use that in the service of Krishna. We chant, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishn Hare Hare Hare Ram Hare Rma Rama Hare Hare. We read Bhagavat Gita, Shreemad Bhagavatam, this transcendental books to get some understanding about the science of self-realiazion, and then eat Krishna prasadam, eat the special spiritual food, in the end there can be some feast also I believe , some kind of prasadam. This is yogic food, vegetarian, natural diet, then ah...in this way it is a very natural for singing, dancing, feasting, little philosophies on creative work. After sometimes 24.40-42 somebody needs to clean up what you leave, some needs to you know... wash the pots, it’s kind of some maintenance work that goes on. But even those activities are cleansing to the consciousness because it is all been done as an offering of love to Krishna. So with a higher purpose, even kind of menial task can have a deeper meaning. Well, one day Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, He was giving out special mercy to His different devotees, and one devotee came, his name was Gadadhara Prabhu, and he requested Lord Caitanya for the blessing for love for Krisha, and Lord Caitanya He gave Him the blessing that yes you can have the love for Krishna, you are very nice devotee. And everyone was rejoicing Hari Bol, Hari Bol. You can love for Krishna just by the mercy of Krishna Caitanya. Then there was a Brahmachari, he was a older brahmachari, brahmachari means like he was a type of renounced mendicant that spend... he was travelling around in India to various holy places, so he is .25.50...and a little advanced, after so many experiences he became a devotee of Lord Caitanya. So he fell at the feet of Lord Caitanya and said that I have realized I have wasted my life. I was doing other processes of yoga, I was meditating, I was doing hatha yoga, I was going to various holy places, going to Himalayas, climbing in the mountains, going to the...to the ocean side to the holy places there, I walked to all the different seven holy rivers on all parts of India, in this way I went to all of the holy places, bathed there, did different tapasyas, did different ah... austerities and penances, meditations, but I realized that I was doing everything on a platform of false ego, I was doing everything on a very superficial platform, without actually trying to please You, without trying to be God conscious or Krishna conscious. So as a result all though I have don’t this things, I don’t have love for Krishna. I don’t have that spontaneous devotion or love for Krishna, so in this way when I came by doing all these things, I may have got some realizations, and may have got some certain spiritual potency but actual without getting that actual blessings of real devotion for You or real love for You, it’s all simply a waste So then he grabbed on to the lotus feet of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and he pleaded, “Give me Love for Krishna, please give me love for Krishna, please give me love for Krishna”, begging, everyone was like looking to Lord Caitanya, what would he do with this devotee who was pleading, crying. Then Lord Caitanya said, “yes you have got... you have understood that this is not simply going through the different motions of different kinds of spiritual activities which is the important thing, what is important is the consciousness in which they are being done. So He gave an example from the Vedas, that in the forest there are many animals, that appear to be very spiritual. Monkeys are naked, simply eat vegetarian, simply eating nuts and fruits and bananas and things, the stark, the cranes they are standing very still, motionless as if they were meditating, but actually they are not moving because they want the fish to go closer so that they can get the fish, just standing and just thinking about the fish, then you have birds, they are flying around, from one tree to the next just like someone who is very detached kind of wondering around, not getting attached to...so kind of yoga just being detached. Or the deer they don’t have a fixed residence, they are just wondering and they sleep under different tree, wondering in the night in the forest, let’s see who else you got... then you got little ...snakes and rodents who dig holes in the ground and live in the holes just like some kind of meditator goes to caves and meditates. So in the forest you can find the examples of so many apparent type of spiritual activities, but everyone knows that the animals, their consciousness is totally different. They are not doing those things out of any spiritual motivation, so Lord Caitanya said that the real point is to have the proper intension and to have the proper consciousness. So now you have understood this, then He gave His blessings, “I will give you the blessing, you may have love for Lord Krishna.” Hari Bol. Devotees: Hari Bol. That was Sukhlambar Brahmachari, he got a special blessing of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and then he started to dance in ecstasy, jumping high, he was so much filled with the spiritual ecstasy. Lord Caitanya taught the secret that the highest happiness of existence actually comes directly from the spiritual platform. When He would dance and chant He would dance so high that he would sometimes faint, sometimes ah...his hairs would be standing on edge of his body, sometimes he would be crying and tears would shoot out, sometimes he would laugh uncontrollably, he was just like... almost like a madman. One never saw someone with so much ecstasies, so much...some ordinary people they thought that this person has gone a little bit ah...sick, he has got some displaced airs in the body, so when they used to say that may be some mental imbalance or something, some cross circuit. So they... in the beginning when Lord Caitanya’s started his kirtan, he was so much ecstasy that when people saw this symptoms, they didn’t know what to think, they never saw anybody jumping and chanting and laughing and sometimes fainting. So the neighbours approached mother Sachi, His mother and said, “Look at your son, something happened to him. Ever since he took initiation from that Guru and came back he has been a changed person. I think in the journey he must have eaten some kind of wild herb or something, maybe you have to take care of him, he got something like displaced airs in the body. One person said that you should give his some nice coconut water, cool His brain down. Another person, “put a little cooling you know 31.22-24.....something on the head, cool down, coconut oil. Are...What are you talking, that’s not strong enough, you just tie him up and keep him in the house, don’t let him out...31.33 His mother Sachi said, “Listen, I don’t want to hear all this, I know my son is perfectly alright.” But they didn’t give out. General people they couldn’t understand. So Lord Caitanya, then He went to see Srivas, a very senior devotee in the town of Nabadwip and he asked if he could have an appointment to see him. He said yes you please come in, he said Srivas Prabhu, at that time Lord Caitanya was only about 16, but he was already graduated from college, he was a child...prodigal child? Devotee: Prodigy JPS: Prodigy child. So He was already teaching, He was already a teacher in His own college, but He was only 16. So he approached Srivas who was much older, he must have been 50 or so, I don’t know, about 50 maybe in age, and he asked Him for some advice. He said, “now since I got initiation, when I am chanting Hare Krishna, I am feeling so much happiness I can’t tell you. I just feel overwhelmed with joy, tears are just coming in my eye and sometimes I feel like dancing and my hairs sometimes they stand on end, sometimes I can’t help but I just cry except such profound emotions I am experiencing the people are telling me that actually it’s a disease, like I am sick. I want to know from Your what I am experiencing is it a disease or am I actually experiencing some real spiritual experience. So Srivas took that in a very serious way, and he told him that, “well you have a disease.” Then Srivas...Lord Caitanya was very upset, He said, “no.” Srivas said, “Yes, and I want it too.” (laughter) “I want this disease also.” (laughter) Then Lord Caitanya knew that he was like joking with Him, He said, “you have a disease for love for Krishna, and I want that disease also.” And Lord Caitanya said, “If you told that I was just materially sick then what is the use of living, if such a profound happiness, such a profound experience wasn’t real, was just some material disease, then 33.48—33.52, then form me there was no more purpose in my life, but now that I understand that what I am experiencing is something real, this is part of devotional service, then you have actually saved my life.” Then Lord Caitanya was told by Srivas, Srivas told Him that, “actually what you are experiencing even great the devas in higher planets like Brahma and Siva, they want that consciousness, they want that love for Krishna. So it’s very rare to get. So general people they are not going to understand Your ecstasy. So You should come to my garden, I have a backyard here my garden is enclosed, you can come here and chant every night and I will invite many confidential devotees who can appreciate and...your ecstasies and they will be very happy to chant with you. So that way the kirtan started and the chanting in the house of Srivas, so in this way Lord Caitanya started his...this congregational chanting. After some year or more, then he started to send out the devotees on the street in the daytime and they meet together and they really fired up intimate kirtan at night. So this way the the... movement spread. Before this mantras were very secret. No man... would chant them out loud in public like that. So Lord Caitanya popularized that you can chant the mantra out loud in a group and there is no difficulty for that, there is no hard and fast rule against. So ah... by this very special process, one can very quickly be recognized as a devotee, and all these mysteries of life can be revealed to one. So initially when we chant, we may not feel all the ecstasies of Lord Caitanaya, and may take a months or even years. Usually within a couple of months one can definitely a feel a lot of change. Someone told me once, I said if you chant you will definitely feel change. Someone said “I don’t feel any change.” Then I said, “how long you chant?”, he said, “I chanted 15 minutes.” (laughter) “Give a little more time.” When people chant that every day for sometime or period of weeks and month, they definitely feel a lot as it goes on increasing, what’s happening is that our consciousness is getting purified from material identification, anyway I think that I want to show a little video about 20 minutes of different things going on in Asia, where I... I live in India as is mentioned, I preach him in India, north and south India and ah...different parts of Asia, mainly I come to the West twice a year. 36.42-45, but first if we could, anyone has any questions? Devotee: I understand that ............now if the universe is....is it possible that, Lord Chaitanyap appeared in some of these other planets. appeared as... is it possible that Lord Caitanya appeared on those planets and taught these those processes.... JPS: Well, we mentioned in the beginning classes that there are two kinds of knowledge, deductive and inductive. Devotee: Yea JPS: You see, so I am representing the inductive process. I can tell you what I learnt from the scriptures, from the Vedas, from my Guru, so this is not knowledge which is like..like anybody gets from ah... from Krishna, and that gives us a knowledge which just not a guess. You are not allowed to guess. I could guess too, everyone could guess. We are not allowed to guess in this sphere of the spiritual. I am not allowed to research and find out what the Vedas say. One of our devotees, sadhaputa Prabhu, Dr.Richard Consel, he done a lot of research on the Vedas in Liverpool, he has came out with the book, what’s the name of the book.? Devotees: Alien history of........ JPS: He had two, he came out with one Devotees: Alien Identities. JPS: Alien Identities, you read that book? He did a massive study of all the Vedas in the past. In the Vedas, it mentions about vegetations from other planets, 5000-10000 years ago, on this planet, the type of aircraft, various things have happened, so if 38.44-46...what is the vedic version about U.F.O’s, vegetations in this planet, then that’s probably your best book where someone has really taken the modern experiences that people have with U.F.O’s, and taken the vedic information on it and then showed the critical comparison of the book. As far as the nature of the universe, the Vedas say that the universe is not unlimited and each universe has a limit. The universes are like kind of big, empty coconuts, the plastic balls with their hollow in the middle, more like a coconut because there is a cover of various dimensions of different kinds of energies which are closing each universe, this universes are as you say millions and billions of light years in diameters, you know there is whatever they are very large in diameter, but there is a limit, but when you go beyond that then there is an area where there is no planet, you got just empty space, and you go beyond there is a limited universe and you have to go through that universal shell and then you reach which is known as nirvana, Buddhist have reached this ah... is the mahattattva or special unmanifested mausal energy like a causal ocean, you go beyond that then you find that there is a spiritual... there is a kind of a border, there is beyond that spiritual energy of light, and in that spiritual energy is that coming from spiritual planets, so they are literally unlimited millions of universes....so many galaxies, when we call universe, like the greater entitled, the whole material sky then we see and beyond that, why this is dark is because it is a closed. Therefore you need stars and suns to illuminate it. Devotee: inaudible JPS: So this is... there are different kinds of prakriti, the total energy is called the apara prakriti, and we are...we are also a prakriti, prakriti means energy, we are a spiritual energy, we are the living force in this body made of the inferior energy or the para... apara prakriti, we are the para prakriti, we are the superior energy, that’s why we want bo liberated from this confinement of this material body again to the higher spiritual reality. Whether you follow Patanjali is a very difficult process, requiring a lot of many, many lifetimes of many, a long time of very intricate kind of postures and meditations, ah...and so this is a process which is much easier, more adapted to, more suitable to our present kind of situation because this is something you don’t have to change your active way of life. You have to change your consciousness, your purpose of how you do things by taking guidance from bhakti yogi guru, bhakti yogi practisioner, so they guide you how to practice devotional yoga, when you devotee every activity, every thought to the absolute truth, to the supreme Lord, in this way the whole activity becomes a kind of living active meditation. So either one has to like totally absorb yourself in this way by all the activities, all the thoughts, all the words being centred around the absolute, or you have to stop all activity and just go within and meditate in that way. There is two alternatives are there. Going in is still like you are so tiny , so many difficulties are there. To practice the Patanjali yoga here is mentioned, go on to the Himalaya, to some secluded forest, simply meditate, you be totally celebate, it is very difficult. With this Bhakti yoga system there is ah... it’s not so restrictive in that sense, the guidelines on how to live one can live a active life, like in engaging the whole life in spiritual activities with a spiritual purpose. In any kind of yoga we are talking about controlling your mind, controlling your senses for a higher purpose. So we are following the Bhakti Yoga system, even Patanjali in his sutra he said that if one wants to achieve any success in yoga ultimately they have to please the supreme Lord, you need some devotion if you want to get success. The whole process of yoga is to realise God, to see God face to face. God is a reality. He is the reality and you want to realise it. So the process of yoga is how to individually achieve that realisation. So Bhakti Yoga is considered to be the perfections of all the yogas, because this is creating a direct link between the individual and the supreme, it is not depending on so much on one’s mundane practices ah... but by directly linking to spiritual activities in spiritual consciousness through the mantras when one... In this connection then Krishna starts to reveal some Himself to the devotee. Any other questions? Devotee: Sometimes people confuse ah...spiritualists like ah...beginning everything that we are trying to escape from realities of life, rather they confuse that because nobody has seen God, does really God exist and thing that being a spiritualist just like trying to escape the realities of life, how do you say about that. JPS: Well not like say about that, first of all 45.07-09 seen God. Krishna He came on this planet 5000 years ago. When He spoke the Bhagavat Gita, there were so many thousands of people that were present him, He showed the universal form and many people saw that. It’s not that God has never been seen. Maybe He hasn’t been seen according to the tradition of the Western philosophies but according to Indian Vedic understanding God has been seen, and He can be seen even today, if you follow the process of yoga. Patanjali has mentioned how to see God, Bhakti Yoga is the process when the devotee can immediately come in contact with God, even before we can see God with our eyes. But there are various ways we can get information like the... you can go on nowadays, if you land in the airport it’s quite common to have a policeman come up to you with a dog. It’s not that he is walking his dog, the dog is trying to smell up if there is any drugs because the dog have got very advanced sense of what, smell. So the dog wants to know, whether you know. Like sometimes there is story how a dog came up to a mirror and stood in the mirror and saw this other dog and started to growling rh...h..h...h...h... Thinking that this dog is coming in on my territory, he comes up and what does he do? Smells, 46.36-38 had no smell. No smell means no personal you know, no smell no dog. If the dog doesn’t smell then I don’t care for this dog, I am not worried about it. So the dog depend so much on the sense of smell. Now here in the West what is the sense that has been given so much importance? It’s like what you seeing is believing, like I was reading, if we can see the television waves you know coming when we will get receptive, then we can see the result. There is a lot of things we can see, that we know is there. Similarly Krishna says, you may not see the self with these eyes but the self is there. You know, because there is difference between a dead body and a living body.. Look at go and look at the morgue, when the body is dead it’s not the same. The living force has left the body. So even externally there are many ways you can see and verify how there is a difference between life and the non-life. But this vision of seeing things with the eyes is very limited, so the Vedas they say there is another sense which is more potent than the sense of seeing, and the whole vedic knowledge is called srota-jnana, sruti, you know what that means? Correct, who said that? Hearing, the sense of hearing is more important, because by hearing that’s how we get the information being revealed from the dimensions above, dimension we cannot see, but by hearing we can get the information, so the hearing is the most spiritual of all the senses. When we sleeping at night just the alarm clock sound can wake us up if someone is calling us. The sound of the sense of hearing is still more awake than other senses. 48.38 fully asleep. That’s why it is stressed that you should develop this God realization, first not by seeing God but by hearing it. By hearing the mantra, this mantra is non-different than Krishna. So if you hear, why don’t you try hearing God. Chant this mantra and see if you can hear God, and experience Him by hearing. The devotees who chant the mantra, they actually start to feel a divine spiritual enlightment, a divine ah...peace of mind, a present, verbally now...the word you know, it’s now...how do explain, something which is kind of in...inexplicable. If you try to tell somebody what an apple tastes likes. There is a story about India,there was a young, there was a mother, at the time when the son was born astrologer told him...told him that your son is...for he is very likely to die in water. According to him water is dangerous for him. The whole life he kept the son away, no swimming pools, no bathing, no lakes, no rivers, he don’t know even a bath, to take a shower, everything to stay away from water. So kind of an old friend in a village said, “listen, it is not very wise because if water is dangerous for him, better you teach him how to swim, because sometimes in his life he may have to go on a boat or go in some place or be something in that...but then if he knows swimming , he can save himself. Since water is dangerous for him, better he learn how to swim. Then it will be less dangerous. Now it was whole new shift of consciousness, strategy so that...she was thinking what to do. Then the son was only ten years old, he was trying to satisfy both this man and this mother, so he said , “well you know the mother didn’t want him to go to water, but at the same time he should learn how to swim.” So he said, can I learn how to swim without going in the water? You know just in the side learn how to swim. (laughter) What do you think ? (laughter) Can you learn how to swim without going in the water? Like that How can we expect. If you want to learn how to do something better you get into it. Similiarly there was an example of...if you want to taste ah... explain what is an apple or a mango tastes, ....it’s like very difficult. Give someone to make a tast. Then when someone chants they are experiencing a whole new spiritual experience... spiritual happiness, and that is a very profound kind of an experience. It keeps on growing and growing with one, if they progress spiritually. So by hearing people can make this experience. So we can see God immediately. Sometimes you experience that the whole group of people are chanting, sometimes people ....even just in one session, feel inclined like dancing, feel actually some kind of happiness, just in the one chanting. I was in a program in Poland, in a place called Kosnan, Poland .... and we...at the end of the lecture I asked everyone if they wanted to chant. Poland has got a tremendous amount number of old people, there must have been 30% old people, usually ....young people, like this program there was many young people and lot of old people, and really old, 60-70-80, As they chanted, everybody stood up and danced, even the old ladies and the young people no problem. Even the old people were chanting and dancing, and afterwards I asked people how did they like it, and they said that they really liked it, they really felt very happy in chanting, and they could you know feel something different. Just the first time and they were using .......then I spoke...I think I have a video somewhere, I didn’t bring that video but, So you can....52.23-26 Lord Caitanya Maha...many people you know, they have seen that Lord Caitanya is the incarnation of God, he was here 500 years ago. Srila Prabhupada, our founder he saw God, anyway you can see God by hearing it. Try to see by hearing, because chant Hare Krishna, you can hear. You should go on with any other question? Devotee: Yes. When did Lord Caitanya,....... that seems to be very much a bhakti path, have experience the reality of the Lord, but not in the form of Krishna ...............experience the reality of the Lord, or ...53.10-16....Prabhupada said about ,..Krishna in the form of JPS: As I mentioned that all the different levels are realizations, Devotion is a factor. More or less some amount of devotion is needed. Some people can achieve through this combination of different spiritual practices in devotion, they can achieve different ah...levels of realizations of Krishna. Krishna is realised in a progressive way, He can be realised as a light, He can be realised as a all-pervasive, as a person, localised spiritual presence with form, or He can be realised as the ah...supreme personality, mean the supreme person, and even that realisation there is many forms that He takes. According to the faith and the vision of the devotees, which brings up a very important point that I wanted to make that when I read the verse I forgot. You reminded me so it’s good, like in this verse here Prabhupada mentions that one who is fully conversant with the Krishna science becomes eligible to enter into the spiritual Kingdom, the abode of Krishna. Now if some has a conception of God which is partial, but it is correct, then only add all the devotionary things and they are expecting like say someone thinks that God is light, and there is a form of Krishna which is effulgent, which is not different than him is pure spiritual life, so then all the devotion buts that’s when already pre-conceived idea, so this is what I should see, then they may only see the light, but someone may only see the holy spirit or what you call the paramatma. Then somebody has a misconception, their wrong idea from the beginning, then they may have lot of devotion and everything, but with the wrong idea they may get some kind of reciprocation, because Krishna will reciprocate. But because they have pre-conceived idea, something comepletely different, a kind of makes it very difficult for Krishna to reveal Himself as He is, even if He dit the person will be looking for something else because they already have a different idea, so that’s why it’s very important to thoroughly know the science of Krishna from the Vedas, and then you get a very clear conception of what is the absolute truth and therefore get desires because it will lead us to where we are desiring, now for desiring the absolute truth then we have a proper conception, we get led directly to Krishna. We have a partial understanding, then we may get a partial realisation. If our concept may be something totally different, then you know we may have to take a another birth and get straightened out from a proper Guru, you may only get a certain...some kind of inspiration but not complete, may mis...misinterpret things that we are experiencing, so that’s why it is very important to learn the science of God consciousness as if handed by through the spiritual authorities who have realised God, who have come in contact with people who are God realised, and are handing down that information without adding or guessing or changing anything. But we accept that there can be varieties of spiritual experiences, depending on the degree of knowledge that one has, depending on their particular faith, and then when you have, ofcourse after the whole equation that people may have taken, different great devotees of the Lord may... they may come in contact with....our founder Prabhupada he said that someone could go back to Jesus, that jesus has a planet and someone great devotee of Jesus can go to Jesus planet. I think we didn’t ask if Mohammedan has a planet, so I can’t really say about that.. but in this material universe there is some very beautiful types of people who are very good in some higher planets. If one doesn’t have a complete God understanding, one may have a very altruistic material concept of God. But....It doesn’t actually take one to spiritual world, it will take one to another very high planet, where people are doing beneficial works for the whole universe and one may get to that planet which is much better of here. But again it is an intermediate state. So we don’t really give too much of a critical analysis of different other religious leaders or meditations, occasionally...occasionally we do forge enough valid information about what they said and what they 57.58 to draw an interpretation, but there is not something so 58.02, but just in principle We can expect that Krishna can reveal Himself in varieties of ways and degrees. He says that I can reciprocate with devotion someone offers, so He will reciprocate... One...There is a story in the Vedas, how there was a rishi and he was praying to God to come to him but in his mind he didn’t really know who God was. He knew from Vedas that there was Brahma and Visnu and Siva, that there was the creator, the maintainer and the destroyer but he didn’t know which was the supreme, so he just said, the iswar, the controller, and he thought in his mind, he thought , well all three are controllers and probably the supreme Lord just show up, but instead in his mind he was having this kind of duality, all three showed up, and he was really very confused, you know. So then he gave all three and didn’t know which one is the supreme, so he found out . ok please give me your blessings, so if we have a particular 59.09......God will come in a particular way, and that is not totally out of character. He may reveal to a certain extent according to the faith of an individual. That’s why it is so important that we really know the science of Krishna consciousness, then we are then in a very very good position, then we can know exactly which is how Krishna acts and how he generally appears....this is what He does, this are His qualities, this are His...so we get a very clear picture of the whole cosmology, so then we know exactly what to desire, what consciousness to have. There is only one supreme Lord. So anyway you approach, so you are approaching the same supreme, so one can get blessings from Him in various ways.

Transcribed by: Sadananda Krishnaprem Das Mayapur, 10.10.2015

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