19941026 Bhagavad-gītā 18.55

The following is a class given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami on October 26^th, 1994, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The class begins with a reading from the Bhagavad-gītā, 18^th Chapter, 55^th verse.

Bhagavad-gītā 18.55

 bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān
 yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ
tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā
 viśate tad-anantaram

Translation: One can understand Me as I am, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of Me by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God.

*repetition*

Purport (by His Divine Grace Abhaya Charan Bhaktivedanta Swami Śrīla Prabhupāda): The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, and His plenary portions cannot be understood by mental speculation nor by the non-devotees. If anyone wants to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has to take to pure devotional service under the guidance of a pure devotee. Otherwise, the truth of the Supreme Personality of Godhead will always be hidden. As already stated in Bhagavad-gītā (7.25), nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya: He is not revealed to everyone. No one can understand God simply by erudite scholarship or mental speculation. One who is actually engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service can understand what Kṛṣṇa is. University degrees are not helpful.

Jayapatākā Swami: It’s a long purport, we’ll touch each paragraph. The first point is that Kṛṣṇa only reveals Himself to those who are trying to be His devotees, or who are His devotees. Without doing devotional service, or without being a devotee of the Lord, He is not obliged to reveal Himself. Kṛṣṇa is residing in the spiritual world, which is far beyond this material world. And in order to understand Him, He has to reveal Himself. There is two kinds of knowledge, there is the deductive knowledge and there is the inductive knowledge. Normally in the material world people know things by deductive knowledge. You see so many evidences. Just like they test animals. After testing 10,000 animals, if none of them develops any sickness, then they think, “Okay, it is safe”, that’s the deductive. For instance, say for example, in Europe they have swans. Some scientists may study and see a thousand swans, and find out all swans are white. So, the deductive understanding is swans are white. But if you go to Australia and they have the black swan, then the whole theory is thrown out of the window. In this way you try to understand things in this universe by analysing and deducting. You see so many people like this, you come up with a theory. That has got some relative value in the material world. But when you want to know which is beyond the material world, something which is beyond birth, beyond death, beyond material light, beyond material time, in a totally different dimension, then deductive knowledge just doesn’t reach it. Even in this world, for things that we don’t have enough information about, or that we don’t have the correct information about, you still are not sure about... just like you don’t know what is on Venus. What is on Mars. You are trying to figure it out. Even what’s in the sun. So, in a few days of having a full solar eclipse, millions of people are going to stay up, are going to watch in the morning when they have the solar eclipse, and I heard that hundreds of scientists are flying to South America to study the full solar eclipse. And so, they still don’t know exactly what happens on the sun. So, it is worth their effort to go down there and study solar eclipses. So what to speak of... we don’t even know about the nearest planets next to the earth, exactly what’s going on. How can we know what the Supreme Lord is doing in the highest spiritual planet, if He doesn’t tell us?

So inductive knowledge means that which is handed down. There might be a noise upstairs. Prabhupāda used this example a lot. Say you hear some tapping, and someone may say, “What is happening?” Somebody is bouncing a ball on the floor, someone may say, “I think somebody is actually doing aerobics and they are jumping up and down.”

Someone else may say, “I think, what they are really doing is that they are dancing.”

You really don’t know what they are doing until someone goes up or someone comes down from there and says, “This is what they are doing. They are having a fight and he is pounding the head of the other person on the floor.” (laughter)

So get information from someone who knows, that is considered foolproof method. And trying to interpolate, and speculate, and deduct, there is always a certain question, certain error factor has to be taken. Like you do the polls, say 1800 people may come up with a result, popular opinion. Error factor, plus or minus 5%. But if you asked everybody in America what their opinion was, then you have a zero-error factor. But that’s not possible. If you want to know what exactly is going on in the Kingdom of God, you can ask everybody, but you are going to have a 100% error factor, because nobody knows except for the Lord and His representatives who come down from that plane. Kṛṣṇa. It is very important to understand that. Sometimes people say that, “You are being dogmatic”. It’s not dogmatic, it’s reality. We can’t know what is going on outside this universe, except unless we receive information from Kṛṣṇa. That’s why the Vedas are so important, because books like the Bhagavad-gītā are actually revelations. Actually, Kṛṣṇa Himself came down in the form of a great sage called Vyāsadeva, and He wrote down all the Vedas. So they are actually written. Of course, Bhagavad-gītā was spoken directly by Kṛṣṇa, and then it was written down by Vyāsadeva. Other Vedas were written down by Vyāsadeva, giving different historical accounts, philosophical explanations about the world we live in, about dimensions beyond this world, and about the spiritual world. These are considered the revealed words of God. That’s actually very scientific method of getting knowledge, because it is the only method that works when you are dealing with something which is beyond normal observation.

Purport continued: One who is fully conversant with the Kṛṣṇa science becomes eligible to enter into the spiritual kingdom, the abode of Kṛṣṇa. Becoming Brahman does not mean that one loses his identity. Devotional service is there, and as long as devotional service exists, there must be God, the devotee, and the process of devotional service. Such knowledge is never vanquished, even after liberation. Liberation involves getting free from the concept of material life; in spiritual life the same distinction is there, the same individuality is there, but in pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One should not mistakenly think that the word viśate, “enters into Me,” supports the monistic theory that one becomes homogeneous with the impersonal Brahman. No. Viśate means that one can enter into the abode of the Supreme Lord in one’s individuality to engage in His association and render service unto Him. For instance, a green bird enters a green tree not to become one with the tree, but to enjoy the fruits of the tree. Impersonalists generally give the example of a river flowing into the ocean and merging. This may be a source of happiness for the impersonalist, but the personalist keeps his personal individuality like an aquatic in the ocean. We find so many living entities within the ocean, if we go deep. Surface acquaintance with the ocean is not sufficient; one must have complete knowledge of the aquatics living in the ocean depths.

Because of his pure devotional service, a devotee can understand the transcendental qualities and the opulences of the Supreme Lord in truth. As it is stated in the Eleventh Chapter, only by devotional service can one understand. The same is confirmed here; one can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead by devotional service and enter into His kingdom.

After attainment of the brahma-bhūta (SB. 4.30.20) stage of freedom from material conceptions, devotional service begins by one’s hearing about the Lord.

Jayapatākā Swami: Everybody knows what brahma-bhūta means. Brahma-bhūta means, when one is identifying with the spirit. Brahma means the spirit of the Absolute. So brahma-bhūta, when we actually realise that I am not the body, but I am the living force in the body, I am the spirit force in the body, that is called the brahma-bhūta. So that’s the stage of freedom from material conceptions.

Purport continued: When one hears about the Supreme Lord, automatically the brahma-bhūta stage develops, and material contamination – greediness and lust for enjoyment – disappears. As lust and desires disappear from the heart of a devotee, he becomes more attached to the service of the Lord, and by such attachment he becomes free from material contamination. In that state of life he can understand the Supreme Lord. This is the statement of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also. After liberation the process of bhakti, or transcendental service, continues. The Vedānta-sūtra (4.1.12) confirms this: ā-prāyaṇāt tatrāpi hi dṛṣṭam. This means that after liberation the process of devotional service continues. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, real devotional liberation is defined as the reinstatement of the living entity in his own identity, his own constitutional position. The constitutional position is already explained: every living entity is a part-and-parcel fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord. Therefore his constitutional position is to serve. After liberation, this service is never stopped. Actual liberation is getting free from misconceptions of life.

Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta Swami translation and purport of text 55, Chapter 18, Bhagavad-gītā As it is, the perfection of renunciation.

Jayapatākā Swami: Some of this is quite technical. It’s important to understand what is liberation. Śrīla Prabhupāda tells a story, how when he was a young man, he was in the Gandhi’s movement for liberating India from the British, like a revolutionary movement to get the British out of India, to be independent country. When he went to his spiritual master, spiritual master told him, “You should go to America and you should give them Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you should give them this wisdom.”

And he said, “What will they care to hear from a person from a country which is only a colony, which is not independent, which is not liberated?”  

And then Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, his guru-to-be, told him that,

“Well, even if you change the political setup, whether it is the British or the Indian government, but the basic problems of life: birth, death, old age and disease, they are not going to be liberated from that. Life is going to continue on with these conditions. Real liberation is to be free from these conditions of material life. From birth, death, old age, disease. This is what actual liberation means.”

This has been further explained, not only to be liberated from the material conditions, but to actually return to our original spiritual condition, or constitutional position. Before we entered into the material world, what our original spiritual relationship with Kṛṣṇa was. To return to that spiritual position, back to Godhead, this is the higher form of liberation. That actually to know, to have that loving relationship with Kṛṣṇa, with all of the friends of Kṛṣṇa, that is a full liberation, known as love of Godhead or Kṛṣṇa-prema.

So the question is what should we actually do with our lives? The Vedas are telling us that as human beings we should try to get liberated from the conditional life, and achieve our eternal life or liberated life. *cop car sounds* But of course, a lot of pressures of everyday life, they are pulling us on, and people tend to not even think about where they are going or what’s happening, and they are just living for the moment. This is something like the example of the children who were flying kite on the roof. You know that example? Here in Philadelphia they fly kites? In India it is very popular in the winter to fly kites. Because very good breeze comes in the winter, so thousands of people are flying kites, and specially in India, in the cities, many houses have flat roofs. So, you get up to the roof, and then you can fly the kite from the roof. I mean here, most of the roofs are sloped. There they are flat. Now what happened was that once there was a house that was under construction, a four-storey building, and there were just flat slabs, just the structure was there. Somehow the children go into the construction site, got up on the roof, and they were flying kites. So they were so into it, the one was going higher and they were having some kind of kite battle. They put glass on the thread with glue, so that you try to go and then you cut the other persons string, and then their flight goes off. So they are really into it, going higher, fighting, it's a whole sport. So what was happening is that they kind of lost track that they were stepping and back and back, they were just looking up at the kite, and they had actually come dangerously close to the edge of the flat roof that had no parapet wall, there is nothing... just a flat roof. One gentleman was walking by, he saw that the children are right there next to the edge, and they were so absorbed in the kite flying that they are not seeing that at any moment they can fall off the roof. So he ran up to the top as quick as he could. And just at that time, the boy with the kite, to get a little extra pull on the kite, kind of backed up a little bit. So, he had backed up, and one of his feet was actually stepping off the roof! So, he was just putting his weight on that foot, you know a few seconds. If he put the full weight on the foot, and then he will fall down four storeys and most likely he will die. So the man ran, and just at that moment he grabbed the kid, pulled him off from the site, saved his life. Certain death. You think all the kids were real happy about that? What do you think? No. They were all yelling at him, “You are so this and that…”, because the kite had flew out of the kids hand, and the kite was flying off, and they were so angry. “Look where our kite went, we’re never going to get it back.”

“Look, you had almost killed yourselves!” They didn’t have the presence even then to focus on what was happening, they are still thinking about their kite. “You ruined our kite!”. They’re yelling at him, “What have you done? Let go off my friend.” Then the parents were next door, they looked out of the window and they saw this man holding onto the kid, and they start yelling at him, “Where you gonna go with our son? Are you a child abuser?” So he was like you know, everybody is getting... he just saved the kids life and everyone was getting on his case.

He finally tells his parents, “Look, your children, they are on this empty roof, they almost fell off while flying kite.” After explaining what he did, then they started to appreciate. It was after quite some getting blasted by everyone for no reason at all. Who are these children that are flying the kite? This is an analogy. Who can you compare to, in material life?

Devotee: Non devotees, people who won’t come to the spiritual master, won’t come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

What do you think?

Devotee: People have lost their good quality.

People who are preoccupied with their sense gratification. They are going for the immediate happiness, and they are  not seeing that death is waiting around the corner. What are the dangers of life, what are the realities. They are just preoccupied. Yes that is true. And who is the person who came and saved him? The preacher. Kṛṣṇa conscious preacher. But none of them are appreciated it at first, they were angry, “What are you doing interrupting our play?” right? Sometimes when a preacher tries to go and explain people about their real purpose in life, how they can escape this repeated birth and death, how they can escape the cycle of reincarnation. the people think, “These people are trying to deprive us from having fun.” They think those kids were having fun.

We were doing harināma in New Orleans and then Channel 8 newscaster filmed and they said, “You will be on the 10’o clock news!” Then we’re turning on the TV to see the news and then we are trying to find the station. It came on to some program called Trauma Centre, I don’t know if it is a national program or local. Trauma Centre had shown people go bloody, coming into the emergency ward and everything. It is happening every day. People are crying, mother with the baby, some man who fell off a boat, his back was twisted and he was screaming. Rather watching the violence, they’re watching the emergency ward. This is going on every day. There is so much suffering that is going on. Side by side there is happiness and suffering. You don’t have to look very far. So these children were ready to the trauma centre, they were just ready to fall off and they were saved. Later they could appreciate. At least someone could appreciate. Lot of time the preachers are not well appreciated at first, people don’t understand what is their purpose. But after people realize what they were saved from, then they can appreciate. It may take some time.

So what we are trying to do is get people to that liberated state beyond all the traumas of the material world. Lord Caitanya requested His followers to go preaching, to save young people, old people, men, women, everyone from the sufferings of old age, disease, death and rebirth. Someone gives this wisdom to others, then he gets recognized by Lord Caitanya as a devotee. When one’s recognized as a devotee, then they can—at it is mentioned in this verse—they can understand the mysteries about Kṛṣṇa and enter into the spiritual world. That’s why the devotees go through a lot of pain, to try to give this message to others. Because this is Lord Caitanya’s special request, trying to liberate people from the suffering. Sometimes it may not be appreciated. But anyway, that person, he didn’t regret. Even if the people are yelling at him. He saved the child’s life. Whether they appreciate it or not, it really didn’t make any difference, because still he wouldn’t have done it any differently. Wouldn’t have let the child fall, even though they screamed at him after. He was still trying to save their life. And if they do appreciate, of course it is very nice. But even if they don’t, the devotee is going to try to help people. That’s why Kṛṣṇa then wants to feel so indebted to His devotees, because the devotees, whether they get some material reciprocation or not, they simply, selflessly, go on trying to help people out of their suffering.

A lot of times this process of devotional service is something very unique. It’s a fun process. It’s a joyful process This is a type of process, there is not any difficulty. The process is to engage all of our different activities, our abilities, our creativity, our personality whatever, engage everything in Kṛṣṇa service. Through unlimited varieties of services we can utilize, whether music, whether art, whether drama, whether practical work, writing, computation whatever we can use. Any kind of service or ability, use that in the service of Kṛṣṇa. We chant

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare
Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare,

we read Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, these transcendental books, to get some understanding about the science of self-realization, and then eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam, eat the special spiritual food. At the end there will be some feast also I believe, some kind of prasādam. This is yogic food, vegetarian, natural diet. In this way it is a very natural process: singing, dancing, feasting, little philosophy, some creative work. Sometimes somebody needs to clean up after everybody leaves, someone needs to wash the pots. It’s also a kind of maintenance work that goes on. But even those activities are cleansing to the consciousness, because it is all been done as an offering of love to Kṛṣṇa. So with a higher purpose, even kind of menial task can have a deeper meaning.

Well, one day Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was giving out special mercy to His different devotees. And one devotee came, his name was Gadādhara Prabhu, and he requested Lord Caitanya for the blessing for love for Kṛṣṇa. And Lord Caitanya, He gave him the blessing that, “Yes, you can have love for Kṛṣṇa. You are very nice devotee.”

And everyone was rejoicing, “Hari bol! Hari bol!”

He got love for Kṛṣṇa just by the mercy of Lord Caitanya. Then there was one brahmacārī, he was an older brahmacārī. Brahmacārī means like he was a type of renounced mendicant. He was travelling around India to various holy places. After so many experiences, he became a devotee of Lord Caitanya. So he fell at the feet of Lord Caitanya and said that, “I have realized I have wasted my life. I was doing other processes of yoga. I was meditating, I was doing haṭha-yoga, I was going to various holy places, going to Himalayas, climbing in the mountains, going to ocean side, to the holy places there, I walked to all the different seven holy rivers on all parts of India, in this way I went to all of the holy places, bathed there, did different tapasyās, did different austerities and penances, meditations, but I realized that I was doing everything on a platform of false ego, I was doing everything on a very superficial platform, without actually trying to please You, without trying to be God conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious. So as a result, I’ve done all these things but I don’t have love for Kṛṣṇa. I don’t have that spontaneous devotion or love for Kṛṣṇa. So in this way what did I gain by doing all these things? I may have got some realizations, I may have got some certain spiritual potency, but actually without getting the actual blessings of real devotion for You or real love for You, it’s all simply been a waste!” So then he grabbed onto the lotus feet of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he pleaded, “Give me Love for Kṛṣṇa! Please give me love for Kṛṣṇa!! Please give me love for Kṛṣṇa!!!”, begging. Everyone was like looking to Lord Caitanya, what would he do with this devotee who was pleading, crying. Then Lord Caitanya said, “Yes you have got. You have understood that it is not simply going through the different motions of different kinds of spiritual activities which is the important thing. What is important is the consciousness in which they are being done.”

So He gave an example from the Vedas, that in the forest there are many animals that appear to be very spiritual. Monkeys are naked, they are vegetarian, simply eating nuts, and fruits, and bananas and things. The stork, the cranes, they are standing very still, motionless, as if they were meditating. But actually they are just not moving because they want the fish to go closer, so that they can get the fish. They are just thinking about fish. Then you have birds, they are flying around from one tree to the next just like someone who is very detached, kind of wandering around, not getting attached. This is also a type of yoga, just being detached. Or the deer, they don’t have a fixed residence, they are just wandering and they sleep under different trees, wandering in the night in the forest. Let’s see who else you got. Then you got the little snakes and rodents who dig holes in the ground and live in the holes, just like some kinds of meditators go in caves and meditate. So in the forest you can find the examples of so many apparent type of spiritual activities, but everyone knows that the animals, their consciousness is totally different. They are not doing those things out of any spiritual motivation. So Lord Caitanya said,

“The real point is to have the proper intention and to have the proper consciousness. So now you have understood this.”

Then He gave His blessings, “I will give you the blessing, you may have love for Kṛṣṇa. Hari bol!

Devotees: Hari bol!!

That was Śuklāmbara Brahmacāri. He got a special blessing of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and then he started to dance in ecstasy, jumping high, he was so much filled with the spiritual ecstasy. Lord Caitanya taught the secret that the highest happiness of existence actually comes directly from the spiritual platform. When He would dance and chant, He would dance so high that He would sometimes faint, sometimes His hairs would be standing on end of his body, sometimes he would be crying and tears would shoot out, sometimes he would laugh uncontrollably. He was almost like a madman. They never saw someone with so much ecstasies, so much! Some ordinary people they thought that this person has gone a little bit sick. He has got some displaced airs in the body. They used to say that maybe some mental imbalance or something, some cross circuit. In the beginning when Lord Caitanya started his kīrtana, he was feeling so much ecstasy that when people saw these symptoms, they didn’t know what to think. They never saw anybody jumping, and chanting, and laughing, and sometimes fainting. So the neighbors approached mother Śacī, His mother and said, “Look at your son, something happened to him. Ever since he took initiation from that guru and came back, he has been a changed person. I think in the journey, he must have eaten some kind of wild herb or something. Maybe you have to take care of him. He got displaced airs in the body.”

One person said that, “You should give him some nice coconut water, cool His brain down.”

Another person, “Put a little cooling sesame oil or something on the head so it cools down, coconut oil.”

“Ay what are you talking? That’s not strong enough! You just tie him up and keep him in the house. Don’t let him out till he gets cured.”

His mother Śacī said, “Listen, I don’t want to hear all you people. My son is perfectly alright.” But the general people, they couldn’t understand. So Lord Caitanya, then He went to see Śrīvāsa, a very senior devotee in the town of Navadvīpa, and He asked if He could have an appointment to see him.

“Yes! Please come in!”

He said, “Śrīvāsa Prabhu…”, at that time Lord Caitanya was only about 16, but he was already graduated from college, he was a prodigal child. So He was already teaching. He was already a teacher in His own college, but He was only 16. So, He approached Śrīvāsa who was much older—he must have been 50 or so maybe in age—and He asked Him for some advice. He said, “Now since I got initiation, when I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, I am feeling so much happiness I can’t tell you. I just feel overwhelmed with joy. Tears are just coming in my eye, and sometimes I feel like dancing, and my hairs… sometimes they stand on end, sometimes I can’t help but I just cry. Such profound emotions I am experiencing, the people are telling me that actually it’s a disease, I got sick. I want to know from you, what I am experiencing, is it a disease? Or am I actually experiencing some real spiritual experience?”

So Śrīvāsa took that very seriously. And he told Him that, “Well… you have a disease.”

Then Lord Caitanya was very upset, He said, “No!!”

Śrīvāsa said, “Yes. And I want it too! (laughter) I want this disease also!” (laughter) Then Lord Caitanya knew that he was like joking with Him. “You have a disease for love for Kṛṣṇa, and I want that disease also!”

Then Lord Caitanya said, “If you told that I was just materially sick, then what is the use of living? If such a profound happiness, such a profound experience wasn’t real, was just some material disease, then for Me there was no more purpose to My life. But now that I understand that what I am experiencing is something real, this is part of devotional service, then you have actually saved My life.” Then Śrīvāsa told Him that, “Actually what You are experiencing, even great devas in higher planets like Brahmā and Śiva, they want that consciousness. They want that love for Kṛṣṇa. But it’s very rare to get. So general people, they are not going to understand Your ecstasy. So You can come to my garden. I have my backyard here, my garden is enclosed, You can come here and chant every night, and I will invite many confidential devotees who can appreciate Your ecstasies and they will be very happy to chant with You.” So that way the kīrtana started, and the chanting in the house of Śrīvāsa. So in this way Lord Caitanya started this congregational chanting. After a year or more, then He started to send out the devotees on the street, in the daytime, and they meet together and they really fired up intimate kīrtana at night. So this way the movement spread. Before this, mantras were very secret. No one would chant them out loud in public like that. So Lord Caitanya popularized that you can chant the mantras out loud in a group, and there is no difficulty for that. There is no hard and fast rule against. So by this very simple process, one can very quickly be recognized as a devotee, and all these mysteries of life can be revealed to one. So initially when we chant, we may not feel all the ecstasies that Lord Caitanya felt. It may take months, or even years. Usually within a couple of months one can definitely a feel a lot of change. Someone told me once… I said, “If you chant you will definitely feel change.”

Someone said, “I don’t feel any change.”

I said, “How long you chanted?”

He said, “I chanted 15 minutes.” (laughter)

“Give a little more time.”

When people chant every day for some time, over a period of weeks and months, they definitely feel “Wow!” Just goes on increasing. What’s happening is that our consciousness is getting purified from material identification. Anyway, I think that I want to show a little video—about 20 minutes—of different things going on in Asia. I live in India as it was mentioned. I preach in India, North and South India, and different parts of Asia mainly. I come to the West twice a year.

On multiverses, aliens, UFOs, and the easiest way to God: Well, we mentioned in the beginning of the class that there are two kinds of knowledge, deductive and inductive, you see. So I am representing the inductive process. I can tell you what I learnt from the scriptures, from the Vedas, from my guru. So this is not knowledge which like anybody gets. It’s from Kṛṣṇa, and that gives us a knowledge which just not a guess. You are not allowed to guess. I could guess too. Everyone can guess. But I am not allowed to guess in this sphere of the spiritual. I am only allowed to research and find out what the Vedas say. One of our devotees, Sadāpūta Prabhu, Dr. Richard Consel, he done a lot of research on the Vedas and UFOs. He has came out with the book, what’s the name of the book.?

Devotees: Alien Identities.

Alien Identities. You read that book? He did a massive study of all the Vedas in the past. In the Vedas, it mentions about visitations from other planets 5000-10000 years ago, on this planet. The type of aircraft… various things that happened. So if you’re interested in knowing what is the Vedic version about UFOs and visitations to this planet, then that’s probably your best book where someone has really taken the modern experiences that people have with UFOs, and taken the Vedic information on it, and then showed the critical comparison of both. As far as the nature of the universe, the Vedas say that the universe is not unlimited. That each universe has a limit. The universes are like kind of big, empty coconuts, the plastic balls with their hollow in the middle, but more like a coconut because there is a cover of various dimensions of different types of energies which are closing each universe. Each universe is millions and billions of light years in diameters. They are very large in diameter, but there is a limit. But when you go beyond that, then there is an area where there is no planet. You got just empty space. Then you go beyond, there is a limited universe. Then you have to go through that universal shell. And then you reach what is known as ‘Nirvāṇa’. The Buddhist have reached this. It’s the mahat-tattva, or special unmanifested material energy, like a causal ocean. You go beyond that, then you find that there is a spiritual... there is a kind of a border. Beyond that, there is a spiritual energy of light. And that spiritual light is coming from spiritual planets. So they are literally unlimited millions of universes. So many galaxies, what we call universe. The whole material sky that we see and beyond that. Why this is dark is because it is enclosed. That’s why you need stars and suns to illuminate it.

There’s different kinds of prakṛti. The material energy is called the aparā-prakṛti. And we are also a prakṛti. Prakṛti means energy. We are spiritual energy. We are the living force in this body made of the inferior energy, or the aparā-prakṛti. We are the parā-prakṛti, we are the superior energy. That’s why we want to be liberated from this confinement of this material body, again to the higher spiritual reality. Patañjali is a very difficult process, requiring many, many lifetimes. A long time of very intricate kind of postures and meditations. So this is a process which is much easier, more adapted to, more suitable to our present kind of situation, because this is something you don’t have to change your active way of life. You have to change your consciousness, your purpose of how you do things, by taking guidance from bhakti-yogi guru, bhakti-yogi practitioner, so they guide you how to practice devotional yoga, where you devote every activity, every thought, to the Absolute Truth, to the Supreme Lord. In this way the whole activity becomes a kind of living, active meditation. So either one has to like totally absorb yourself in this way, by all the activities, all the thoughts, all the words being centered around the Absolute. Or you have to stop all activity and just go within, and meditate in that way. Two alternatives are there. Going in.. it’s like you’re hearing the class here, sirens are going, car traffic. So many difficulties are there. To practice the Patañjali-yoga, he recommends go on to the Himalayas, into some secluded forest, simply meditate, you be totally celibate. It is very difficult. With this bhakti-yoga system, it is not so restrictive in that sense. There are guidelines on how we live, where one can live a active life by engaging the whole life in spiritual activities, with a spiritual purpose. In any kind of yoga, we are talking about controlling your mind, controlling your senses, for a higher purpose. So we are following the bhakti-yoga system. Even Patañjali, in his sūtras, he said that if one wants to achieve any success in yoga, ultimately they have to please the Supreme Lord. You need some devotion if you want to get success. The whole process of yoga is to realize God, to see God face to face. God is a reality. He is THE reality and you want to realize Him. So the process of yoga is how to individually achieve that realization. So bhakti-yoga is considered to be the perfections of all the yogas, because it is creating a direct link between the individual and the Supreme. It is not depending on so much on one’s mundane practices, but by directly linking to spiritual activities in spiritual consciousness through the mantras. In this connection, then Kṛṣṇa starts to reveal Himself to the devotee.

On seeing God through hearing: Many people have seen God. Kṛṣṇa, He came on this planet 5000 years ago. When He spoke the Bhagavad-gītā, there were so many thousands of people that were present. He showed the universal form and many people saw that. It’s not that God has never been seen. Maybe He hasn’t been seen according to the tradition of the Western philosophies. But according to Indian Vedic understanding, God has been seen, and He can be seen even today, if you follow the process of yoga. Patañjali has mentioned there’s a process to see God. Bhakti-yoga is the process when the devotee can immediately come in contact with God, even before we can see God with our eyes. But there is various ways we can get information. Nowadays if you land in the airport, it’s quite common to have a policeman come up to you with a dog. It’s not that he is walking his dog. The dog is trained to smell if there is any drugs in your bag. Because the dogs have got a very advanced sense of what? Smell. So the dog wants to know. Like sometimes there is story how a dog came up to a mirror. Just looked in the mirror and saw this other dog, and started to growling, “Grrrrrrrr….”, thinking that this dog is coming in on my territory. He comes up and what does he do? Smells. The image had no smell. No smell means no personal, you know. No smell, no dog. If the dog doesn’t smell, then I don’t care for this dog. I am not worried about it. So the dog depend so much on the sense of smell. Now here in the West, what is the sense that has been given so much importance? Sight. Seeing is believing. We can’t see the television waves comes in, but you get a recepor, then we can see the result. There is a lot of things we can’t see, but we know they are there. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, “You may not see the self with these eyes, but the self is there.” You know, because there is difference between a dead body and a living body. Go and look in the morgue. When the body is dead, it’s not the same. The living force has left the body. So even externally there are many ways you can see and verify how there is a difference between life and the non-life. But this vision of seeing things with the eyes is very limited, so the Vedas, they say there is another sense which is more important than the sense of seeing, and the whole Vedic knowledge is called śrota-jñāna, śruti, you know what that means? Hearing! The sense of hearing is more important. Because by hearing that’s how we get the information being revealed from the dimensions above, dimensions we cannot see, but by hearing we can get that information. So the hearing is the most spiritual of all the senses. When we sleeping at night, just the alarm clock sound can wake us or if someone is calling us. The sound of the sense of hearing is still more awake than other senses. It doesn’t fully sleep. So that’s why it is stressed that you should develop this God realization, first not by seeing God, but by hearing Him. By hearing the mantra, this mantra is non-different than Kṛṣṇa. So if you hear, why don’t you try hearing God? Chant this mantra and see if you can hear God, and experience Him by hearing. The devotees who chant the mantra, they actually start to feel a divine spiritual enlightenment, a divine peace of mind. How do you explain something which is kind of inexplicable? Like you try to tell somebody what an apple tastes like.

There is a story about it in India. There was a mother who, at the time when the son was born, astrologer told her that your son is very likely to die in water. According to him, water is dangerous for him (son). The whole life she kept the son away. No swimming pools, no bathing, no lakes, no rivers, not even a bath to take a shower. Everything to stay away from water. So kind of an old friend in a village said, “Listen, it is not very wise, because if water is dangerous for him, better you teach him how to swim. Because sometime in his life, he may have to go on a boat, or go in some place or something. So then if he knows swimming, he can save himself. Since water is dangerous, better he learn how to swim. Then it will be less dangerous.” Now it was whole new shift of concept, of strategy. So then she was thinking what to do. The son was only about ten years old. He was trying to satisfy both this man and his mother. So he said, “Well, you know the mother didn’t want him to go to water, but at the same time he should learn how to swim.”

So he (son) said, “Can I learn how to swim without going in the water? You know, just on the side, learn how to swim.” (laughter) What do you think? (laughter) Can you learn how to swim without going in the water? Like that, how can we expect? If you want to learn how to do something, better you get into it. Similarly there was an example, if you want to explain what an apple or a mango tastes like, it’s very difficult. You have to give someone to make them taste. But when someone chants, they are experiencing a whole new spiritual experience, spiritual happiness, and that is a very profound kind of an experience. It keeps on growing and growing with one, if they progress spiritually. So by hearing, people can make this experience. So we can see God immediately. Sometimes you experience that a whole group of people are chanting. Sometimes people, even in just one session, they might feel inclined, like dancing. Feel actually some kind of happiness, just in the one chanting. I was in a program in Poland, in a place called Koszalin. Poland. And at the end of the lecture, I asked everyone if they wanted to chant. Poland has got a tremendous number of old people. There must have been 30% old people. Usually we get young people. Like this program there was many young people, and lot of old people, like really old, 60-70-80. As they chanted, everybody stood up and danced. Even the old ladies! Of course the young people no problem. Even the old people were chanting and dancing. And afterwards I asked people how did you feel?  And they said that they really liked it, they really felt very happy in chanting, and they could feel something different. Just the first time. And they were never exposed before. I think I have a video somewhere. I didn’t bring that video but… Many people, they have seen God. Lord Caitanya is the incarnation of God, he was here 500 years ago. Śrīla Prabhupāda, our founder, he saw God. You can see God by hearing Him. Try to see by hearing first. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then you can hear.

On progressive realization: As I mentioned that all the different levels of realization, devotion is a factor. More or less, some amount of devotion is needed. Some people can achieve—through this combination of different spiritual practices and devotion—they can achieve different levels of realizations of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is realized in a progressive way. He can be realized as a light, He can be realized as all-pervasive—as a person, localized spiritual presence with form, or He can be realised as the Supreme Personality, the Supreme Person. And even that realization, there is many forms that He takes according to the faith and the vision of the devotees, which brings up a very important point that I wanted to make when I read the verse, but I forgot. You reminded me, so it’s good. Like in this verse here, Prabhupāda mentions that one who is fully conversant with the Kṛṣṇa science becomes eligible to enter into the spiritual kingdom, the abode of Kṛṣṇa. Now if some has a conception of God which is partial, but it is correct, then when they add all the devotion and everything, and they are expecting… like say someone thinks that God is light, and there is a form of Kṛṣṇa which is effulgent, which is not different than Him, just pure spiritual light. So then all the devotion, but then because that’s their already pre-conceived idea that, ‘This is what I should see’, then they may only see the light. Or someone may only see the Holy Spirit, or what you call the Paramātmā. If somebody has a misconception, they have a wrong idea from the beginning, then they may have lot of devotion and everything, but with the wrong idea they may get some kind of reciprocation, because Kṛṣṇa will reciprocate. But because they have pre-conceived idea, something completely different, it kind of makes it very difficult for Kṛṣṇa to reveal Himself as He is. Even if He did, the person will be looking for something else, because they already have a different idea. So that’s why it’s very important to thoroughly know the science of Kṛṣṇa from the Vedas. And then you get a very clear conception of what is the Absolute Truth, and therefore our desires will lead us to where we are desiring. Now for desiring the Absolute Truth, when we have a proper conception, we get led directly to Kṛṣṇa. We have a partial understanding, then we may get a partial realization. If our concept may be something totally different, then we may have to take a another birth and get straightened out from a proper guru. You may only get some kind of inspiration, but not complete, may misinterpret things that we are experiencing. So that’s why it is very important to learn the science of God consciousness as it is handed by through the spiritual authorities who have realized God, who have come in contact with people who are God realized, and are handing down that information without adding, or guessing, or changing anything. But we accept that there can be varieties of spiritual experiences depending on the degree of knowledge that one has, depending on their particular faith. And of course you add to this whole equation that people may have faith in different great devotees of the Lord they may come in contact with. Our founder Prabhupāda, he said that someone could go back to Jesus. That Jesus has a planet and someone very devoted to Jesus can go to Jesus planet. I think we didn’t ask whether Mohammedan has a planet, so I can’t really say about that. But in this material universe, there is some very beautiful places where people are very good, some higher planets. If one doesn’t have a complete God understanding, one may have a very altruistic material concept of God. It doesn’t actually take one to spiritual world but it will take one to one of the very high planet, where people are doing beneficial works for the whole universe, and one may get to that planet, which is much better of here. But again it is an intermediate step. So we don’t really give too much of a critical analysis of different other religious leaders’ meditations. Occasionally we do, if we get enough valid information about what they said and what they experienced to draw an interpretation. But nothing based on something so casual. But just in principle, we can accept that Kṛṣṇa can reveal Himself in varieties of ways and degrees. He says that I reciprocate with the devotion someone offers me. So He will reciprocate. There is a story in the Vedas, how there was a ṛṣi and he was praying to God to come to Him, but in his mind he didn’t really know who God was. He knew from Vedas that there was Brahma and Viṣṇu and Śiva. That there was the creator, the Maintainer and the destroyer. But he didn’t know which was the Supreme, so he just said, “Īśvara, the controller”, and he thought in his mind, he thought, ‘Well all three are controllers, and probably the Supreme will just show up’, but instead in his mind, because he was having this kind of duality, all three showed up. And he was really very confused, you know. (laughter) So then he get all three, and he didn’t know which was the supreme, so then he said, “Well… okay. Please give me your blessings.” So if we are expecting God will come in a particular way, and if that is not totally out of character, then He may reveal to a certain extent according to the faith of an individual. That’s why it is so important that we really know the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then we are then in a very very good position. We can know exactly which is how Kṛṣṇa acts and how He generally appears. This is what He does, these are His qualities, these are His... so we get a very clear picture of the whole cosmology. So then we know exactly what to desire, what consciousness to have. There is only one Supreme Lord. So anyway you approach, so you are approaching the same Supreme. So one can get blessings from Him in various ways.