19801205 Evening Darśana

(Disclaimer: The following is a machine-generated transcript and may contain errors or inaccuracies. It will be reviewed and verified against the original audio soon.)

The following is an Evening Darśana given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami Mahārāja on December 5, 1980.

So the example is given that someone may think that, all right, if a cow dung is pure, then let me take the stool of some nice Brahmin, some priest, and then we can use that. But no, you can’t. That’s not accepted. He may be a great priest, but his, you see, still will not be acceptable. But the shasta says, no, but cow dung is pure. Now, science has. Modern science has analyzed the contents of cow dung and found it to be antiseptic. It has antiseptic qualities. So there are things like that where the scripture says, even within itself, it appears to sometimes be contradictory or make contradict something that we know. But if we go into it deeper or actually have a broader vision, then we can understand that there’s actually no contradiction.

So if you find some corollary, minor point, which you cannot understand on the basis of that, you should not allow that to erode your faith, rather than accept the tv or the newspapers as the standard of evidence, except the scriptures or the shastras, the vedas, as a standard. And all your questions can be answered. But the first question we should consider is, why do I suffer, even though I don’t want to suffer? And how can I stop the suffering? How can I be actually happy? And if it actually makes us happy with the solutions, then we should understand that this works. If you go to a doctor and you want to know if the doctor is any good, how will you tell? Because your disease, if he can cure the disease, then we know he’s a good doctor.

Recently, there was a big scandal I heard here in Missouri and the different parts of the midwest. A lot of doctors who had cheated on their exams and got false certificates or roof certificates by false means and just to maintain the profession, they would operate and everything, but ultimately, all the patients, a lot of them would die. And when they were finally examined, it became evident they really didn’t know the medical profession. So, of course, one can tell by the results. If by changing Hare Kṛṣṇa, if by living the philosophy, if one actually understands who he is, if he actually becomes situated in self satisfaction, if the results that are predicted happen. Take that empirical experiment as the proof. In other words, verify something you can verify. You pick up one point, just like I said.

After seven days, the embryo is so big, so we can compare how far the moon is away, of course, that they’re taking their estimates by x ray and radio wave and light wave, and so many. Who knows? That may change in five years when they have more accurate instruments. So why don’t experiment on the more immediate things that we have, especially ourselves. I want to become happy, so I want to become peaceful. I want to become God conscious. So there it gives the system. If we practice it, what happens? Is it working that we can directly, subjectively can understand? What do you think? Well, a lot of things, you know, like the pure purification process. Shannon, I believe that’s worked. The purest thing out of here is everything’s gotten so corrupt. So those things I can’t disagree with at all.

I feel kind of foolish because I even said that to you. No, no, I don’t mind. And don’t mind that, you know, that we’re discussing, because that’s the whole point. If we don’t open up a little bit, how do you get anything? In fact, this is called exchange of love. In the nectar of instruction, it says there are six exchanges of love. To give something, some food, to eat, to accept something to eat, to offer some service, to accept some service and to open one’s mind. And to accept one’s mind. So opening our mind, that’s part of the exchange of love as part of an exchange where one can actually make advancement. Otherwise, if the doubt just stays inside, it’s not going to get purified. If you take it out, look at it, discuss it can go. What do you think?

Well, like I said, I mean, it’s a good process. The Kṛṣṇa conscious, the voice is trying to be sure. How many rounds do you chant today? No, I don’t. I don’t chant rounds. I always think all day long. I think when I die, I don’t want to come back there. I would like to make that. I want to be thinking about Kṛṣṇa, but I think about that all the time. If and when I do, hopefully. How many of you can least think Kṛṣṇa’s name? You think that’s good enough? No, I know it’s not right? Well, it’s better than nothing. It’s better than nothing. See, just like a plant, if I water that today, I water the plant one cupful, three days, I don’t give it any water. Then I give it five cupfuls. Then for a week, I don’t give any water.

For two weeks, I don’t give water. What will happen to that plant? It will grow strong, depending on the environment. Compared to a plant that I am giving every day, a little water which will grow better. The one that often gets water erratically or one that daily gets just the proper amount. The one that gets daily water. So in the same way, chanting is like watering the plant and the Chaitanya charatamrita mentions that Guru Kṛṣṇa Kripa brāhmaṇa Brahmin te kono bhagavanji, guru Kṛṣṇa prasadi bhakti lo tabij that by the, you see, we’re wandering in this universes, birth after birth. And by the mercy of the guru and Kṛṣṇa, we get the seed, the beach seed of devotion is planted in our heart. And that seed, by watering, by chanting, starts to sprout and grows. So the basic idea is there should be watering of the seed.

That’s actually very beneficial. It helps to control the mind. Even if one can’t do anything else by daily chanting. That’s very helpful. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa all day, then in seven minutes or ten minutes, you can chant one time. You could set aside ten minutes a day, early in the morning, and that way, just not too much, just gradually. And that will help to control the mind and that will give one gradually a taste. Because it’s like cleaning a mirror. We can’t see Kṛṣṇa because in our consciousness we have so much dirt that has accumulated. And when we try to look at Kṛṣṇa, it’s like looking in a mirror that’s covered with dirt. So gradually we start to clean off that accumulated dust and that extinguishes the fire of this material existence.

And gradually, as our consciousness becomes more and more purified, then we can see things as they are. So just gradually, even, you know, every step we take towards Kṛṣṇa, he’s taking ten towards us. He’s very eager that we come back to him. He’s very eager. We don’t come back in this world. But you see, we’re not eager to go with Kṛṣṇa. That’s the defect. And then they think why God is making us suffer. But he’s not. He’s begging us to come back. We just know that. We just start to start the walking process. So chanting is a guaranteed progress. Of course, association with devotees coming to the temple, remembering, these are all helpful, especially if one chance to Śrī Vishna Caitanya, Prabhu Nithyananda, Śrīadvaita Gadadha, Sivaśrī, Gorbachta Rinda, that has a special quality of creating and desire in us to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

So if you chant that first a few times, remember Lord Caitanya, that will automatically give you a desire to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It will make it very easy. That’s the secret why the devotees can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa so much. Because they chant Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya’s name. It’s like clears the way. Makes it very easy to train. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Anyone else has any questions, I’d like to know.

Are you going to stay? will you be here tomorrow night?

Come here earlier. But I am scheduled to leave tomorrow afternoon. I am going to be coming back in August. I will be here tomorrow morning unless I get an order to stay. I came unexpectedly. I wasn’t supposed to come until August. But there was some unexpected call. That’s why I had to come. You’re coming here?

Yes, I. Come on.

How long have you been coming?

Well, I guess on an off I have.

Come over a year. What’s your name?

My name is Lionel.

Sentence. Lionel centers. So what do you think of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Well, I think Kṛṣṇa is the supreme creator. Therefore I think Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the way to. To change America and the world.

And that’s what’s most important. Thank you very much. Thank you. Do you feel any change since you have been coming? Yes, I know so much.

I have learned a lot about pronunciation of sanskrit words. And I am learning to read the language. I like the stories. I tell the stories to all my friends and family. And it’s changing their way of thinking.

What stories you like?

I like a lot of them. I like Tay Tanya’s story and Ron Chaytan. There’s one great story that I heard. I remember his name right. One of the most.

Can I remember Kundalini?

Yes.

Story about Pundree Vijay Niri. He writes in the Bhāgavata misunderstanding between Gadada and Kadara. Did not understand how research devoted because his external appearance like that. It was very wealthy prince. But finally he saw his. Upon quoting Kadana recorded the verse. Do you know the story about Suranga taqwa?

I don’t think so. I’d like to hear it.

He was a devotee that lived in Abadvi. And Lord Caitanya had repeatedly told him that he had to accept disciples. But he never. He never initiated any disciple. But he was daily doing his worship. So one time he was thinking that actually I neglected my order to initiate a disciple. And who knows? Any day I may die, may leave. So when he woke up the next morning after in the nighttime lurch and they came to him in a dream and told him, you have to initiate someone. So he woke up and said, the first person I see, I am going to tell him the mantra in his ear and make him initiate it. So then he went down, proceeded and went down to the Ganges to take his morning bath. And that time was already before sunrise.

So when he was in the water, then a body brushed against him. And so he said, oh, here’s the first person I have seen today. In the dark, he didn’t distinguish was actually a dead body, a corpse that was floating in the water. He pulled the body near, and in the air, he spoke the mantra. And as soon as he said, the dead body came alive and it started shouting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare, Hare, hare, hare, hare. Medieval. And then he said that I was living 5 miles upstream, and it was my wedding day, and I took the bath before being married, and I drowned and I was floating down. My name is. And this is why you chanted my ear. And now I am back. So actually, he never went back to his house. He just stayed there with Seranga Takur.

And he’s known as Marari Thakur. Marari Takwar? Yes, Murāri Takwar. Takwar means great saint. So he was a great preacher. Then he went and he preached widely lord Caitanya’s movement. So the point is that this mantra is so powerful, it can even bring the dead back to life. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So it’s properly chanted. How did you like that story?

It’s very beautiful and enlightening.

You got a question? What is your name? Joe Connell. Joe Conway. All right. Okay. Thank you for coming. Please give him prasadam. No questions. Just by the side of the temple of Murāri is the birthplace of Vrindavan das Taqwa, who wrote the Chetanya Bhagavat. There’s two main literatures about Lord Caitanya. The Caitanya Cherādhāvita, which we have, it’s considered to give the most detailed exposition of both pastimes and philosophy. Another one is Chetanya Bhagwat, which gives more of the pastimes, not so much philosophy. About 40 miles north of Marali Thakur and Saranga Takwar’s place is the birthplace of Kṛṣṇa Das Kobiraj, who wrote the Chetanya Charitamrita. That’s just on the bank of the Ganges. And I was visiting that place. And of course, it mentions in the Chaitanya Charatamituda story how actually Kṛṣṇadas Kaviraj is worshipping his Rādhā Kṛṣṇa deities. Rādhā. What was the name?

Gopal. Gopīna. Gopal Gopīna. And his brother was also. There was also a devotee. And one day he had a very big festival, and he invited over a devotee of Lord Nithyananda. Lord Nithyananda, one of his name is Avadute. Avad Dut means one who is above all the rules and regulations. It’s actually on the transcendental platform. So when Minnikitan Ram Das was invited to this festival of chanting, he was a great devotee of Lord Nithyananda. He also is a little extraordinary in that every time heard Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting, he would just start crying. Practically. He was always crying, more or less, because he was always chanting. Sometimes he would laugh and sometimes he would cry. And he used to carry a little flute. And whoever he touched with the flute would also become ecstatic despite being touched by his flute.

So Kṛṣṇadas, Kabiraj’s brother in law, he started criticizing for no reason. Minnikitan Ramdas, who is this Nitinanda? He doesn’t follow so many rules and regulations. He’s not so strict this that he started making criticism without understanding. Nity Nadin himself is. Is an incarnation of Balaram. He’s also an incarnation of GD and one of his aspects. So Kṛṣṇadas Kaviraj argued with him that this is very inappropriate and offensive that you say these things against Lord Nitinanda. I can’t bear to hear it. And when Minne Kitan Ram heard this, because if a devotee hears an offense to the Lord, this is very bad. So immediately, he broke his flute, threw it down, and he walked off. He couldn’t stay in a place where devotees were blaspheming the lord.

So that night, when Kṛṣṇa’s kaviraj went to sleep, then in his dream, Nitinanda appeared in the form of Balaram. You know Nithyananda? Yes, I do.

I am aware of Nithyananda.

So he came as a cowherd boy, Balaramdeh, with all his associates. And then he told them, you go to Vrindavan. He gave that order. Next. Then Kṛṣṇa Khadi Raj, he woke up. And then he understood that he was ordered. He had to go to Vrindavan. So then he just left that place, and he went off to Vrindavan, even though he was very old. And then when he got to Vrindavan, then, of course, eventually he was ordered to collect all the diaries of the secretaries and associates of Lord Caitanya. And he wrote to Caitanya Cheratami. So at that place where he’s born, they built a temple and put the lotus footprints of Lord Nityānanda in the temple. And people bow down to his footprints. Because Nityānanda had appeared in that place in the dream of his devotion. It’s also considered that he came there.

So in that way, they are worshipping Nithyananda at that place.

I agree.

Have you seen Lord Nithyananda in your dreams?

Not yet.

Do you chant hare Kṛṣṇa?

Yes, I do.

How many times?

Well, I meditate a lot.

Okay.

So, you know, sometimes I chant and sometimes I meditate. And sometimes I do grow. But I never miss a day without doing. Without chanting or meditating or doing.

Do you have. Bitch. So you heard that example about watering the plant? So if you keep a fixed number, you know, one time, two times, four times, whatever, you can set your own, you see, standard. But if you. Whatever standard you set, if you just keep that every day, then that will you see that you will get more of an advancement from that. Then, you know, one day, chanting one day, meditating one day. Then it becomes a different effect on that creeper. If you do it daily, then Kṛṣṇa, he takes it that this devotee has committed himself to me to daily chant. And he gives a greater reciprocation. Because what will happen is Kṛṣṇa will start giving little things to test you.

If you say I am going to chant one per day, something will happen where that chanting one per day is difficult because this relative came or that friend came this. How do I squeeze in the one then if I still squeeze it in? Because I made a promise to myself anyway, that I am going to try to do one a day or four a day, whatever. Then Kṛṣṇa understands that he’s very serious about spiritual life. And so then he makes it easier and easier to make progress.

I have had that example. Kṛṣṇa, give me some things get in the way and it can be bothered. Some things are beneficial. And like you say, sometimes it makes it somewhat hard to find a time. And the battle of light and darkness constant.

So do you pass the test or do you fail?

Well, I had been passing all the time.

That’s great.

Lately I have been struggling. I have got some things that I am trying to accomplish and I have to look great.

Sonny, the association with devotees is always good. The more you can associate with devotees, that will be very helpful. First thing is to have faith. And the second thing is to associate with devotees. And the third stage is to practice. Yes, thank you, Dennis. I have to go too. Okay. All right. It’s pretty late. Your name is Dennis? Oh, no, my name is Gus. Gus. Okay, thank you. Thank you for your time. Please give some prasad to come again. Come again. Pretty happy group, don’t you think, Lionel?

Yes, I agree. Very transcendental.

You seem to fit in.

I am a devotee.

I can understand.

Thank you.

I should have a rose. Very fragrant. What’s your name again? Franklin. Diablo. Go in the doctor. Who’s vanagopīna? He already left. Anything else? What’s your name? Who’s Chota? How are you? He’s cooking.

He’s busy.

Always busy. Nice prasada. No questions. All the plans were from stipulation india. In India? Yeah. The Bengali Paz have reached India. Well, we sent them a Śrī Lahari Keshe Maharaj. And then he gave them to New York and there was a mix up. So the positives were delayed. Actually, they made positives the wrong sides and brought them to the festival. We sent them back. Now they have been sent again. Now they’re supposed to be right. What’s right besides the path of protection and life comes from life. They’re all 18 chapters? Yeah. How much do we call? Seven? Rs8. Oh, to the public or to the printing cost. The devotees be something between six and eight. Sold for ten. Sell it for ten. Right. Sold for 1012. Right. Now they got 4000 sly tapes. So they have been selling tapes to liquidate some of their capital.

And now they’re doing a lot of paraphernalia. I am going to go back and set an assistant up so they do more books.

(Side B of the Cassette)

Of the dogmas presented by the scientists as laws. So, of course, when went there, were pretty much unimpressed with the subject matter. But the presentations were very nice. One thing that we saw was the agricultural exhibit. And in the agricultural exhibit, far different from other exhibits, there was nobody there. There were no other people. Every other exhibit was packed. But that particular exhibit, no one was there except for us, one whole wing of the building. And they had one show which was, you bet your crop. The point was that farming is such a gamble. So they had this farmer, and he had to choose whether to grow corn or raise some kind of livestock or wheat. And according to what he chose, depending on the rainfall, the market, the pesticides, and so many factors, he was going to win or lose.

And they had a radio announcer who was keeping tabs on along the way as he made the right or wrong choice. So in the end, he got the jackpot and he won. His corn crop was profitable that year. We were meditating on that show. It was very corny, but got to the point, and we’re contemplating that if you could put on such an exhibit, you bet your life, because everybody is betting their life. And just as that farmer had to make so many decisions whether to grow corn, whether to take pesticide or not, we are every moment deciding what to do, what not to do, even we don’t take it as a decision. Even if we just go on following everyone else in the material world, that’s also a decision.

But people are not thinking that what they do, what will be the end result. They don’t have any clear idea what is life all about. So that is very unfortunate. It’s very unfortunate. We see that people, they’re so impatient. They have a system there where you push buttons, and as you push the button, then something moves, either levers or computer. There’s so many buttons there. It’s very nice. But people are so impatient that they push the button, even wait to see what happens. They go on the next one, push it. They just walk down the line pushing every button. So I saw that the exhibitors are catching on to that. They started having some buttons that said you had to hold it for 25, 20 seconds before the machine would act. So at least the people would have to stand there that long.

The people are very eager to be happy, but they’re very impatient also. And the combination doesn’t go very well. As you’re watching the exhibit, three different people ask us, who are you? Are you part of a movie set? Where are you filming? One fabulous Lawrence of Arabia. And then we told them that, no, we’re hare Kṛṣṇa devotees. They said, oh, I have heard of them. Apparently no one has seen devotees for a while, but so they thought that were coming for some movie. So this way I got a little bit of a firsthand view. Although I was born and brought up in the midwest and went to school in the northeast, I have been india for practically about eleven years now. This is my second visit after eleven years. Now I will be coming here often, so I am still suffering culture shock.

When the devotees come and visit India, they get culture shock because there’s no machines. After coming here after so many years, I get. Culture shock is everywhere. There’s machines. So the machines, they are very much a part of the american way of life. But the amazing thing is that people can still live without machines. Prabhupāda used to tell us jokes. I never knew what he meant. Now I get a clear insight. He used to criticize us that you Americans, you can’t go to sleep without a machine. You have to have some, either a telephone or something just by your head and get the smell of the mobile oil. Then you will be able to get to sleep. If you don’t get some kind of machine near you, then you won’t be able to fall asleep.

So now you can see that actually that western culture means everything has a machine. If you want to go shopping, you have to get in your automobile. If you want to talk to someone, of course you have the telephone. So these are convenient one hand. On the other hand, as the machines go on increasing, apart from the things which are a little convenient, then it becomes more and more complex. And for the simplest things, machines are required. They took me to a shopping mall. I hadn’t seen it before. Shopping mall. This were built after I left in 1970. And so many stores are filled with so many different little machines. Machines for physical exercise, for building up this muscle and that muscle. There was a whole window display of all type of machines. Push ups or swimming weren’t enough.

You had to have tremendous, different kind of bull workers. This one, that one. So we see that it’s very much. It’s very easy to complicate our lives. And what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness all about is to kind of just clear away the smoke screen. What is life really all about? And it’s very difficult to actually get people to get out of the lines in the hobby section, waiting for the stamps and the coins and all the really important things of life and to just look for a minute at where they’re going. It’s very difficult. But actually, we see that when someone is put in misery, then he starts to think, why am I miserable? So now that there’s a little bit of crises in the world, Americans are starting to think, what’s going to happen? Is there going to be a war?

So many people ask me, when is the war? Is there going to be a world war? People are starting to think petroleum prices are going up three times 300% every few months, every year. People are starting to think a little bit, feeling a little insecure. That is the time to preach to them because their ears are a little bit open, a little bit wondering, what’s it all about? What’s going to happen? When a person is too proud, too fixed and enjoying, then it’s very difficult for him to hear about spiritual life. But if he has a little bit of intelligence and he’s feeling a little difficulty, then he will be a little open to someone who can give him advice. So that’s why Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is here, is to give people the direction.

That’s why Śrīla Prabhupāda has sent us to preach all over the world, different places. He has requested his followers so that when the people are little receptive, then we catch their ear somehow. We induce them to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, to serve, to take a book. And that was a good chance. I happened to phone up. My father phoned me. He lives in Wisconsin, and he was very proud of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. He said he was watching the evening CB’s newscast. And in London there were. The iranian embassy was captured by some terrorist group, and there were guerrillas inside holding these hostages. And outside they had army, they had the Scotland Yard, they had huge crowds, thousands of people, and it was televised. Right in the middle came a Hari Nam group chanting high group. And the Namsu said, here comes.

You will see that there’s a Hare Kṛṣṇa. They are chanting for peace. Here they are coming. And then, you know, he gave his announcement and the devotees came right in the middle of the whole thing. You’re. My father said, I couldn’t believe it, that they really had a lot of guts. The other was carrying sten machine guns and, you know, practically a warfield, and they’re chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa right through the middle. So people appreciate when they see that devotees are very persevering at this point. They’re ready for getting a little bit of instruction. They will become more ready because times are going to get worse. Before they get better. So therefore, we have to, Prabhupāda said, remain very pure. Purity is the force. We have to mean very pure.

Give a very perfect example, so that when people hear from us, they can accept what we are saying without prejudice. But it’s very essential that we maintain a very good image so that we can present the answers to the public and they can just give a little bit of open hearing to what we are going to say. Those are a few thoughts there. Any questions? I like questions and answers. What’s your name? Kevin. Kevin? You don’t have a name. Do you like flowers here? I got a very good news just an hour ago. I thought I was going to have to fly all the way to London and have gurudev meet me there. But he’s going to meet me in New York. We will fly from New York back to India together. That’s very nice. Any questions?

They have asked me to be what happened to small christians? He’s going with me back to India. He will be visiting here. He’s going to build to the profile Samadhi Mundir, and then he’s going to be developing some new preaching fields. He personally thought he gave a tape to his disciples, one in Dallas and one in Chicago. Gave a three hour darshan in Dallas, about 2 hours in Chicago. I don’t know if I think Adikesha Mars must have it for anyone who’s a like. He explained it in his own words very clearly. He actually thought that the field that Śrīla Prabhupāda had intended for him to preach in was not America on a zonal basis. So he explained in detail his position on the tape. I don’t know how much I can go into.

You know, they have one of those museums that science here in St. Louis.

They do. Is it bigger than Chicago? Different.

Same idea that you’re talking, when you push the button, you have to hold it. There’s so many exhibits that, you know.

The people they look at real quick.

And move along with the next you’re talking to them. That was all done, so I thought.

Maybe, you know, sure, I’d like to go and see it sometime.

I thought you were going to build one here.

Well, we’re definitely going to build one india, but we may also build some here. In each temple we’re going to have dwaramas. You know, Dwyrama tells the story of life, tells a story in dolls and models. So we’re going to have such exhibits in all the temples. You ever seen them on changing bodies in the book. So those exhibits are being mass produced now so that East Temple can have them on display.

Is Henry Ford sponsoring all that?

He’s sponsoring a few of them. Henry Ford’s grandson. Henry Ford. We’d like to meet him. You don’t know where he is at this point? You know, a lot. I read you some of the books. So how long you been coming here?

Quite a while. Pretty. Pretty steady for the last four years.

Four years.

Something that I always question. It’s probably my fault, too. You know, things like, you know, the absolute truth. You know, that’s what the Bible get.

Is the absolute truth. Yeah.

If you find any thought on that’s in there. And that would keep it from being absolutely true.

So what flaw have you found? Okay, well, you know, then there’s.

Okay, I might find something out, but then there’s so many things that are positive thinking. I mean, for purity compared to the other.

Well, what’s the fault? Fault.

Okay. This is the only really thing that I don’t understand is that it says that they haven’t landed on the moon. You know, later on in these conversations, says something as a possibility may have. You know, there are conversations where he.

So, like, where does it say in which sloke? In the Bhagavad gītā. Which verse does it say that they haven’t landed on the moon? Okay.

What it says is that the moon is further away. I don’t understand that.

And that’s not in the Bhagavad Gītā.

It’s in the śrīmada.

Yeah. Now we’re making an exhibit to show that actually, recently, you probably knew there was an eclipse of the sun about two months ago. There was india. I don’t know if it was also in America.

Yeah. It wasn’t in here.

And from America, thousands of scientists went there because it was the first time that they got such a perfect opportunity. So one of the doctors that went there, who photographed, he published in a newspaper that, according to the findings, this proves that the sun is actually rotating in its own orbit around the Earth. So the point. The point is, of course, that the scientists. There’s so many things they can’t explain. There’s so many things they can’t explain. Just like frogs sometimes rain from the sky. In Hungary, you can see these castles in the sky. You can see whole cities in the sky. In Hungary, part of Czechoslovakia, they don’t know why the. It’s like a mirage or something in the sky. They see whole cities in the sky. No one can explain. You can see even cars moving and everything. How is that?

No one knows. In South America, there’s these tunnels which are perfectly square into the earth. And they’re dated back literally so old, yet they’re saying only 3000 years ago there’s no civilized people. So like this, there’s so many things science can explain. If you look at the history of science. First of all, there was a system of physics that was, I think, Newton’s. Then after that came Einstein, and now Einstein is going out. So every 20 years there’s a change. And I remember seeing so many different theories. When I was in Canada, they had a theory that actually the sun’s rays go in a spiral form. By the time they reach that, actually the sun is very close to the earth. But the sun rays are going around and around.

And then finally, when they reach the earth, it appears the sun is far away. So, you know, when you hear all these things, who do you believe? Which is the right. You know, right now, they will put a little model up and say it works, but doesn’t mean maybe it doesn’t work some other way because it’s all speculation on their part. They’re just measuring things and trying to fit it together. They have just discovered that there are satellites around Jupiter 20 years ago. But in the vedic literature, it says that there are satellites orbiting Jupiter and that scripture was only written down 5000 years ago. But the scientists, they couldn’t confirm that until 20 years ago. So there. So there are many things like that. That also the interpretation of what something means, which of the. Which of the.

Which of the statements is given in a symbolic sense. And whichever is given in a direct sense. The story of Paranjana is given in a symbolic sense. So there are various things. To understand these things, ultimately one has to approach a spiritual master. So these things where you’re trying to balance out empiric science with the Vedas, ultimately, the scientists themselves, every day they’re coming up with some new theory. Many people claim that the whole going to the moon was a hole. Whether it wasn’t sitting here. Maybe they did go, maybe they didn’t. Maybe that what we call the moon is something else. I remember that just after they landed there, one of our.

Some of our preachers that were preaching in Russia, they found it very unusual because just after the Americans proclaimed that they had reached the moon, the Russians who had been following them, they’re the only ones who have the radar strong enough to go that far. I mean, India doesn’t have it. And, you know, so they said that they had gone so far. And then they claimed that they’re at the moon. But according to the radar, that they no way reached that far. And this was going on for three days. All of a sudden, all the anti propaganda stopped. Within a week, Russia reached the moon. They said, no objective. So, you know, there’s all kinds of things on. And then I remember seeing someone showed me a book where they showed that the spaceman is landing on the moon.

And it showed little wires on his arms. And they’re trying to say that this man, it was a dummy. Then someone else told me a story that in one of these, you know. Ever seen a broadcast of, like, when they’re in space on tv for NASA? It’s always completely fuzzy. You can’t see anything. I mean, you can watch. You can watch a baseball game in Tokyo. And by satellite, it comes here. It looks like it’s being played in St. Louis. But here you have got the biggest equipment. They’re going to the moon. They’re so advanced. When you look at that picture, it looks like you’re looking through a snowstorm. So somebody saw that during the middle of that show. The guy went like this. This was in Australia. They caught it. So they got the copy of that film.

And they stopped it to that slife, to that frame. And then when he went, why did the guy in the moon suddenly go like that? And then. No, actually, it wasn’t. I don’t know who found this out. But I heard another story. This is very big in Australia. That then they blew up that frame larger and larger. And then they found that in front of the space guy, there was a fly. And they looked. And that fly is the kind that they have in the middle of the outback in the, you know, australian desert. So whether. You know, then these are stories. I don’t know whether to believe their stories either. You know, whether it’s the truth, whether just saying it, you know, like they dream these things up in there, you know, or whether this is a fact.

So if it comes to actually who to believe, first of all, these things are not really essential. Whether or not they got to the moon or not. We have to be skeptical. Because. Just because they say in the paper and they show us a little thing on the tv. Why should we accept we say that just to make people think. Even if they did get there, why do you accept you didn’t see it? You’re following blindly that they got there. But then, you know, then you say, I can’t follow the scripture which is saying the same thing, that you have a spirit soul. You are spirit soul which is beyond the mind, which is not beyond the intelligence. But then you say, no, I have to see it first. But you’re not seeing them going to the moon. You’re accepting. That’s the point.

The provost getting to say something outrageous like that. It may be right. Let them prove to us they went there. Why should we accept just because they released it on international press? Right? That’s not part of the Shastra.

The thing is that it seems to me that there’s so many demons. One demon is trying to overcome the other demon in politics so that one demon will dig as deep as he can on that guy to expose him as much as possible so that he can defeat it, so he can have the power. You know what I mean? Like the president. He’s going to defeat everybody that he can. You know, he can expose them to the last bit of whatever dirty can find.

Yeah.

So that, you know, it purifies itself. The system does, you know, nature does that. So that if that wasn’t true that surely someone would expose it by now.

Because they do that much nowadays. What were they gained by it? They gained.

They were gaining power to be president and to be a Democrat.

It’s not going to help the national interest.

I don’t think they’re really working.

Well, we heard about it. Somebody’s exposing. It takes a lot of money to expose things.

In fact, the president.

Was interested. I don’t want to start talking about politics. I want to talk about politics. But you can see it because it’s really open in these Middle east and third world countries. Whoever’s got money, he immediately. The politicians sing a different tune. I know that it’s the same way here, just that it’s not so much in the open because it’s the same way. Just like. I mean, this came out in the newspaper yesterday that. What was it? There was some. Some bill to legislate something which is hurting the public, some pollution or something. And there’s such a powerful lobby from that particular industry in the Congress that they stalled the legislation on that control for a year and a half. And, you know, there’s so many things. The people who are selling all these equipment, they’re making a lot of money.

And if you want to be president, you have to spend millions and you need money. So, you know, who knows what goes on at that level? I.

You know, maybe someone like yourself would.

Know.

Being TBC and all.

That.

I thought that all they, you know, people like yourself and Trudeau, Goswami are really enlightened to know things about.

So that’s the thing. There’s a lot that doesn’t meet the eye. There’s a lot more than meets the eye in all these decisions. And when it will suit someone’s cause, then they will reveal it, as you said, to destroy someone’s prestige. And when it doesn’t suit, then they won’t. The thing is, we should be trying to understand. This is like the scripture says, that don’t trust a politician, you see, because they’re always looking for their own self interest, how to get the votes, not what’s the best for the people or how to get the power. So that is the difficulty. And also we should try to understand. Just like it says, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then you will get this result. It says that the body is changing from babyhood to youth to old age. And through all these changes, the soul is unchanging.

They went to the exhibit. They had a. They said life before birth. At least there. They admitted there was life before birth indirectly, although publicly they don’t in their laws. And they showed the embryo just gradually getting bigger and bigger until finally it was practically time to be born. But in the Vedas, like even find in the Siemad Bhagwatam third canto fourth volume, a detailed description of how birth takes place, how many days it starts off, just as you know, as an ovum gradually takes place after seven days, what size it is after two weeks, it’s all mentioned there. And they didn’t operate on people like that. And start taking out. Put them in little formaldehyde bottles. How do they know? So there’s a great vision and you may find some contradiction.

Just like the scripture says that the stool of any animal is dirty, shouldn’t touch. If you touch it, you should wash yourself. At the same time, they prescribe using cow dung for pūjā, for worship. But cow dung is also the stool of animal. How can that be?