19870714 Bhagavad-gītā 11.4

The following is a given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami Maharāja on 14th July 1987 at Copenhagen, Denmark. The class begins from a reading from the Bhagavad-gītā, Chapter 11, Verse 4.

Bhagavad-gītā 11.4

manyase yadi tac chakyaṁ
mayā draṣṭum iti prabho
yogeśvara tato me tvaṁ
darśayātmānam avyayam

Translation: If You think that I am able to behold Your cosmic form, O my Lord, O master of all mystic power, then kindly show me that unlimited universal Self.

Purport: It is said that one can neither see, hear, understand nor perceive the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, by the material senses. But if one is engaged in loving transcendental service to the Lord from the beginning, then one can see the Lord by revelation. Every living entity is only a spiritual spark; therefore, it is not possible to see or to understand the Supreme Lord. Arjuna, as a devotee, does not depend on his speculative strength; rather, he admits his limitations as a living entity and acknowledges Kṛṣṇa’s inestimable position. Arjuna could understand that for a living entity it is not possible to understand the unlimited infinite. If the infinite reveals Himself, then it is possible to understand the nature of the infinite by the grace of the infinite. The word yogeśvara is also very significant here because the Lord has inconceivable power. If He likes, He can reveal Himself by His grace, although He is unlimited. Therefore Arjuna pleads for the inconceivable grace of Kṛṣṇa. He does not give Kṛṣṇa orders. Kṛṣṇa is not obliged to reveal Himself unless one surrenders fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and engages in devotional service. Thus it is not possible for persons who depend on the strength of their mental speculations to see Kṛṣṇa.

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta Swami translation and purport to Text 4 Chapter 11 of The Bhagavad Gītā As It Is in the matter of ‘The Universal Form.’

Jayapatākā Swami: The word ‘manyase yadi - if you think’ is important because it demonstrates the attitude of Arjuna in requesting Kṛṣṇa. “If You think that I can see your universal form.” The devotees, they generally don’t ask Kṛṣṇa anything. Rather they offer Kṛṣṇa their service. That’s the nature of devotion, to serve Kṛṣṇa. It’s Kṛṣṇa who spontaneously thinks how to reciprocate with His devotee, how to offer His devotee service. But the devotee doesn't want to accept any service from Kṛṣṇa. But sometimes, for some reason, the devotee may feel some need to ask Kṛṣṇa something. But the devotee then asks in this way, “If you think - manyase yadi.” If you think. Like sometime we would pray that… say some devotee is sick, we would pray to Kṛṣṇa that, “If you’re pleased, kindly allow this devotee to become healthy and remain, because we require the association of that devotee. And if You please, and would kindly have your blessing. Because if Kṛṣṇa wants to take someone, who can stop Him? So the devotees sometimes ask like this. That was the way Prabhupāda would pray to Kṛṣṇa, “If You think” or “If You like.” So Arjuna, he’s not asking Kṛṣṇa for some kind of sense gratification that, “I’d like to see your cosmic form. It’d be really gratifying to me.” He’s asking because he can understand that, when Kṛṣṇa has declared that He’s the Supreme Personality of Godhead, in the future someone may say, “Well He just says that, doesn't mean it’s true.” Like in India today there’s a lot of so-called incarnations of Godhead. They claim that they are actually Kṛṣṇa, but if you were to go to them and say, “Kindly sir, please show me your universal form?”, you’d get booted out immediately.

“What you are doing? You’re being insolent!”

But Prabhupāda, he said that if actually someone claims that He’s God, He should be able to prove it. If somebody shows at the airport and said that, “I’m the president of Norway”, or president of England or whatever. There’s no president in England but president of France. Of course, everyone knows who the president is, but they would say, “Well kindly show it.” Someone claims to be the Lord of the whole worlds, then he should be able to demonstrate that, otherwise you don’t claim it. So Arjuna knows that, “Well, I believe you.” Arjuna believed Kṛṣṇa, but maybe in the future others wouldn't. They’d say, “Well Kṛṣṇa’s not God. He’s saying that, but He’s not the Supreme Lord.” So then Arjuna is requesting, as he said in the previous verses (Bg. 11.2-3):

O lotus-eyed one, I have heard from You in detail about the appearance and disappearance of every living entity and have realized Your inexhaustible glories.

O greatest of all personalities, O supreme form, though I see You here before me in Your actual position, as You have described Yourself, I wish to see how You have entered into this cosmic manifestation. I want to see that form of Yours.

Jayapatākā Swami: So basically, the purpose is not that he doesn’t believe, but that others might not believe. Prabhupāda said that Arjuna did not have any personal desire for confirmation. Kṛṣṇa also understands that Arjuna wants to see the universal form to set a criterion, for in the future there would be so many imposters who would pose themselves as incarnations of God. The people therefore should be careful. One who claims to be Kṛṣṇa should be prepared to show his universal form to confirm his claim to the people. Just like, for some time this Bhagwan Rajneesh, he was claiming to be God. But then later he said, “There is no God, so where is the question of being God? There’s no God.”, and he kept changing.

So there’s some other guru, some time ago… 5, 10 years ago, he was claiming to also be Kṛṣṇa, but then he got married to his secretary who was some western girl. And so then his mother said that, “He’s no longer God. His younger brother now is God.” But then his younger brother didn’t have the charisma, people weren’t following him, he couldn’t deceive the people well enough. So then in spite of having married western secretary, still some people were following the other older brother. So then the mother said, “Well now he’s God again, he’s transferred back.” People are believing these things, it’s amazing. I don’t know what they think about? But then there’s another famous yogī, or he’s got some big hair and he also claims to be God. He shows some magical tricks. And once there was one magician, Sircar, he’s very famous magician, Sircar Jr., in India. So he said, “Sir, I would like to meet you.”

So he wrote back, “No, I don’t see magicians.” If he’s incarnation of Godhead, why he won’t see a magician? See he’s always giving people ashes *puff puff* on their head, and then he’s also just making rasagullas, and apples, and watches just come from the air, and he’s giving to people. So just see why is this? And if genuinely producing these things from the air, then theres no fear if magician comes, then why he refuses? So he (magician) said, “I’m gonna go and see him.” So he just went without revealing his identity.

That so called incarnation, all of a sudden *impostor God casts an illusion*, “Here, take this.” 

So then the magician he went like this *counters with his own illusion*, “Here you take a rasagulla!” (laughter)

So that incarnation you know, “What's going on?!” (laughter) “Shhh…! You take this, *more illusions* here’s an apple.”

He said, “Take it, *more counter illusions* Here’s an orange!”

“Who are you???”

He says, “I am Sircar the great… whatever you know. (laughter) Listen, I claim that I’m a magician, but what you’re doing is simply ordinary magic. But you’re claiming you’re God! That’s why you’re a cheater.”

“Get out of here!” Just throws him out.

So these things like are going on. In India its a regular pastime that somebody claims to be God. In the time of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he had that one yogī who also had big hair, had some mystic powers through worshiping Kāli or something, some demigoddess, he got some mystic power in his hair. He could also do some magical feats. Recently, just about 20 years ago… when I just came in India about 15 years ago, there was one yogī and he also has the big hair, big beard. He had that little temple by the side of the Mahānadi river in Orissa, which is about 200 kilometers from Jagannātha Purī. So he would sit inside his temple, and there, people would come and give him offerings, and he’d close the door of the temple and his servant would open the door again, and *poof!* he’d be gone. He’s gone! They close the door. Then after about one hour they’d open the door again, *poof!* there he’d be back again with big piles of hot prasādam.  “It’s from Jagannātha Purī!” Even in Jagannātha Purī you can hardly get hot prasādam. But he had hot prasādam and said, by his mystic power he was going to Jagannātha Purī and bringing it back. Then they would distribute that, and people give him donations. And he was doing some rāsa-līlā or something. So somehow some husbands were complaining that this person is playing with our wives, and so many difficulties are coming so… (laughter) they sent the police to investigate, the special intelligence branch. So, they’re studying what is this going on? So they found that by the river side, about two three hundred meters from that temple there’s some smoke coming from the ground, so it’s very unusual. So then they made a raid. One time when they closed the door, the police came, broke the door open, and they found in that temple there was a secret trap entrance. And they went in it and there was a tunnel, and in the tunnel they found there was an underground kitchen. (laughter) And there this yogī was there with his cooks and he’s getting the offerings to bring it over to the temple. So then they showed all the people, “Just see how he’s cheating you!” So then the people they took the yogī, and one by one, they pull out all the hairs of his beard and head. (laughter) Meanwhile the police were writing out the complaint, they’re just ignoring you know. (laughter) And it’s like a daily affair. I mean even today they are so many so called avatāras. Kṛṣṇa says (Bg 4.7-8):

yadā yadā hi dharmasya
glānir bhavati bhārata
abhyutthānam adharmasya
tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ
vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām
dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya
sambhavāmi yuge yuge

That I’ll come ‘yuge yuge - age to age, in every millennium.’ But actually in India not only are the incarnations coming every age, not only every century, or every decade, or every year. But every month, every week there’s new avatāras coming, you see. (laughter) But they’re not the real avatāras, they’re bogus. This is the funny thing. If people are religious, they exploit their sentiment. They’re not satisfied to say that the guru is representative of Kṛṣṇa. They have to say guru is Kṛṣṇa. He IS Kṛṣṇa, he is incarnation, he’s actually God. He’s not getting the power from Kṛṣṇa, but he IS Kṛṣṇa.

There is a one famous story about one incarnation, he claimed to be the reincarnation of Lord Caitanya. So but then he was found in a bond with some girl, and her parents beat him really bad for messing around… they just completely beat him and so he was so afraid and he went and hide inside a cave for many years. And he was inside a cave out of fear, because if he goes out he might get beaten up again. Then after sometime, his followers come there and they find that he looks very sick, so they bring a doctor. And the doctor says, “You’ve been without any sunlight for so long that your health is very bad, so you need to get some air.” He told his followers, “You take him on a bullock cart. Let him go around and get some air. He’ll get cured.” So then they were carrying him around on this cart. Then he fell off the cart, broke his leg, and died. So followers felt cheated, “Our avatāra or incarnation is dead.” So they made another plot. They put him in a grave for burying. Then out of the grave they came up with a little baby, a little boy about 3 years old. “Look! He immediately reincarnated, just like that! This is the new avatāra!” But then after a day or two of showing that this is him, came back again like this, then the parents came and said, “Why did you kidnap our child? We don’t need all this!”

You can’t believe how the people are going on. Just like Prabhupāda said that Kṛṣṇa could understand how in the Kali-yuga people are going to just try to push forward this idea, “I’m incarnation of Godhead.” Everyone wants to be worshiped as God, all these false religious people. So basically the Vaiṣṇavas, they are trying to establish who is God. Who is actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now you can understand why Lord Caitanya, although He is Kṛṣṇa, He’s coming as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. He never proclaimed that He was Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise everyone will proclaim. They’re already doing that. But in Lord Caitanya’s mahā-prakāśa-līlā, when the 21 hour ārati was performed. Another time also, Lord Caitanya showed His total spiritual opulences. In fact one time also Lord Caitanya revealed His universal form in the house of Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura. So although Lord Caitanya never proclaimed that He was Kṛṣṇa to the public, and although all the scriptures say Kṛṣṇa will come but in the form of a devotee; for His intimate followers who kept realizing that He was Kṛṣṇa, on two occasions He revealed His spiritual opulences. He did not publicize that. He’s actually Kṛṣṇa but in Kali-yuga, Kṛṣṇa only comes in disguise. So for His followers He could reveal, but to the public He did not reveal. And during His presence nobody could claim that He was Kṛṣṇa. Only after He left, He allowed. “After I leave, you can reveal who I am. During my presence I don’t want anyone to speak that I am Kṛṣṇa. It’ll disturb my pastimes.”

kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ
sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam
yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair
yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ

Kṛṣṇa will come, glorifying Kṛṣṇa in a non-blackish color. In a golden color, accompanied by His own expansions ‘sāṅga - Nityānanda, Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa. By His incarnation, by His energies and associates, by His paraphernalia. What will He come to do? See, the śāstra, there is a way of telling who is an avatāra, because first of all avatāra would be predicted, that this incarnation of Godhead will come, He will have these qualities. Even in one of the Vedic literatures it predicts that Kṛṣṇa will come ‘Śacī garbhe - in the womb of Śacī.’ He’ll come. In first 24 years of His life, He’ll be a gṛhastha. Last 24, He’ll be a sannyāsī. He’ll come and spread the saṅkīrtana movement. He’ll come and chant His glories; all these various descriptions are given. So if you study these, if you can see Lord Caitanya, He fulfils. Actually bogus incarnation, there’s no quotation or any prediction, they’re just claiming like that. So naturally they create a disturbance in society. If somebody does claim that I’m God, then he should be able to show his universal form. Arjuna asked, “Please if you think it’s possible for me to behold, kindly show me your universal form.” If somebody is claiming like that, that means he must accept that “Oh you’re such an intimate devotee I’m revealing to you who I am. I’m actually God.”

“Oh thank you very much. If you kindly show me the universal form.” that should be the criterion. “If you can’t show the universal form then don’t claim to be God.” When Kṛṣṇa was present, He also showed another universal form to Duryodhana, when he tried to kidnap Him. Still, they were so foolish, they could not get any proper intelligence not to fight the Kurukṣetra Battle. So Lord Caitanya, actually He’s come to establish the proper Sanātana-dharma or eternal religious principles, to give people real love for Kṛṣṇa.

When Kṛṣṇa comes, one of His qualities is He'll do something which no one else can do. To actually make people love Kṛṣṇa, that is the greatest miracle.  One time Lord Caitanya was chanting at Rāmakeli. Rāmakeli is where Rūpa and Sanātana lived. Rūpa and Sanātana lived 3 to 4 kilometres from the capital of the Hussain Shah. The Hussain Shah was the emperor of the entire Eastern India, known as the Bangladesh, which is comprised now of Bengal, Bihar and many other states in Eastern India. Rūpa and Sanātana were his finance prime minister, and they were Vaiṣṇavas. So at their place, Lord Caitanya, He started a big Harināma. At that Harināma so many hundreds and thousands of people started to come, like ten thousands of people started to come. It’s was very big Harināma, and Lord Caitanya… day and night he just kept the kīrtana going. He was going and going. He would just Himself be always there with the kīrtana. So one of the ministers in Hussain Shah’s, one of the Hindu ministers… but Hussain Shah was a Muslim who was known for breaking down Kṛṣṇa temples and things. So they thought this is dangerous. If Lord Caitanya goes on chanting like this, so many crowds of people are coming. What if the emperor Shah does some violence to Lord Caitanya? Better to tell Him to go out of here. So then they made a plan to go and tell Lord Caitanya that He should move His kīrtana far away from the palace of the Mohammedan emperor. So then one minister, messenger, he went to tell Lord Caitanya. But Lord Caitanya, from morning to night He was doing kīrtana. He would just for a second go and take a quick bath, take some prasādam, again out into kīrtana. And there was no any moment that you could actually speak to Him. So he’s waiting for two days like this, trying to get a chance when he could speak to Lord Caitanya. But he wasn’t getting any opportunity. So then finally he said there was no hope speaking to Lord Caitanya. So he started to tell other associates, “You know you’re very close to the emperor’s palace. He could come and do some violence to you. Should be very careful!” So then gradually the devotees started getting worried for Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya He saw in the kīrtana that the devotees are getting a little bit distracted in the kīrtana. So then suddenly He stopped the kīrtana, “You think I don’t know that I’m right next to the palace of the emperor of Bengal? You think I’m not aware of that? Why are you all worrying? No one can stop my saṅkīrtana movement! Don’t worry just go on chanting.” So then everyone went like “Haribol!!” They went on with the kīrtana. So that minister went back frustrated.

So meanwhile next day, the emperor, ‘cuz he obviously got some reports. He suddenly said that, “Who is this Caitanya Mahāprabhu?”

So then one of his Hindu ministers said, “He’s just some fakir, a mendicant. He doesn’t have any money or any following, He just you know goes here and there, and few people follow. That’s not very significant.” Tried to really downplay it so that the emperor wouldn’t take it very seriously.

The emperor said, “No, I don’t accept. I don’t accept. I think that He’s non different from God. He’s non different from Khudā, Allah.”

Everyone was shocked! How is a Mohammedan ruler saying that a Hindu sannyāsī is non-different from Allah? They said, “What makes you think that, your majesty?”

He said that, “Well, why do you work for me? Why do my governors work for me? How is this whole government running? It’s all running because I’m paying everyone. If they didn’t get their salary, if they didn’t get renumeration, if they didn't get some kind of money, some kind of material things, who would work for me? I don’t even think my wife will stay with me if I didn’t give her material things. This Caitanya Mahāprabhu, even my minister, even so many big people, they’re chasing after Him. People are giving up everything and following Him chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Not taking any salary, not taking anything from Him, material. Yet they’re fully satisfied. No one can do that unless they’re God. You can’t satisfy anyone without money. They’re satisfied without money. It must be spiritual.” Some of the ācāryas, they considered who is this Mohammedan emperor who has recognized that Lord Caitanya is God. Obviously he’s not an ordinary person. But Lord Caitanya, after some time He moved on. Went back to Jagannātha Purī. His purpose for going to Rāmakeli was fulfilled. He met Rūpa and Sanātana, gave them the order to go to Vṛndāvana to meet Him, to join Him. So like this, Lord Caitanya, His purpose was actually to give people love for Kṛṣṇa. But that is the greatest miracle! People would say “Śrīla Prabhupāda, Why is that sometimes people leave?” That’s not unusual because there are so many material attractions everywhere. What’s the miracle is how’s anyone staying? How is anyone satisfied just chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and living a simple life? Why are they satisfied? And if you lose your absorption and if you become distracted, if you commit some offences somewhere, you become entangled again in illusion. But the fact that anyone can be happy without anything material, that’s a miracle! It’s possible because this Holy Name, this chanting of Kṛṣṇa, is Kṛṣṇa Himself. It’s possible by following Lord Caitanya, because Lord Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa Himself! Actually Śrīla Prabhupāda did so many miracles in making temples and publishing so many books. We could give so many. But the actual greatest thing he was able to produce devotees, and devotees are being produced by devotees. That’s the actual real miracle.

Advaita Gosvāmī, he could see… Navadvīpa, 500 years ago, it was very materialistic. It was very hard to preach there, was impossible to preach, practically speaking. No one wanted to hear anything. They all knew everything, they were all very proud. And people were very religious superficially, but it was all materialistic religion. Simply praying to different forms of God to give them some material benediction. There was no pure devotion. Practically few rare Vaiṣṇavas were there. 99% everyone was in Māyāvāda or karma-kāṇḍa. Some materialistic form of so called superficial religion, chala-dharma, apa-dharma. In fact people were very proud of their religiosity, so they would show off what they were doing. So when they would marry their daughters, they would have big ceremonies to marry their daughters. Spent lot of money to show, “Look, I am religious!” But it was all just giving it for their family. And when people ran out of daughters, it was a very enjoyable thing to have big marriage ceremonies. You could give big feasts to everyone. So they started having marriage ceremonies for Śiva and Pārvatī deities. Make a deity or doll of Śiva and Pārvatī and marry them. That wasn’t enough. There was another competition. Someone took a male and female dog and married them. Big Vedic ceremony, changed the garland (laughter), fire yajña the whole thing. And someone, he had married a female and male cat. This way this is going on you know. Advaita Gosvāmī’s like, “What’s all this? What is going on in the name of religion? This isn’t religion! It’s a farce.” But the people are showing they’re very religious. They’re marrying at cat by a Vedic ceremony (laughing).” It’s a mutation. That’s why they prayed to Kṛṣṇa, that, “You please come down, because You can give love for Yourself.” That’s Kṛṣṇa’s special feature, He can give His own love. Normally He doesn’t give it so freely. As Kṛṣṇa, He would give it very sparingly. He leisurely give liberation, He’d give mystic power, He’d give material benediction. But to get love of Kṛṣṇa, from Kṛṣṇa, was a very rare benediction. When Kṛṣṇa came as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He freely gave out this love of Kṛṣṇa.

pāpī-tāpī yata chila, hari-nāme uddhārila,
tāra śākṣī jagāi mādhāi
(bhajana: hari hari bifale – 3)

He came to give out prema, pure love for Kṛṣṇa. That is something which in history has not happened previously. In any known history in this day of Brahmā. So you’re all very fortunate, we’re very fortunate to be present while Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s movement is here on this world. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu, you can achieve. You can taste. Even now you can get a taste for love for Kṛṣṇa. That’s the greatest good fortune.

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare,
Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare

On kīrtana: The daraveśas dancing or sufī’s dancing, that came after Lord Caitanya’s movement. Because actually in India, there’s no such ceremony of dancing and chanting. People would sit down and do sitting kīrtana. It’s not the custom of just the general Hindus to do chanting and dancing. Chanting and dancing was actually brought by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There’s no history of that before. Lord Caitanya, Tukārāma, the disciples of Lord Caitanya, they made this chanting and dancing established in India. Big groups of people singing and dancing and chanting. But when the Mohammedans said to people that you had a choice of dying or converting to Islam (they’re not the most liberal of people), so some people, some sādhūs, just to save their self they became superficially Muslim. But actually they preach the same thing. They were like offshoots of Lord Caitanya’s movement. Sufi and all was much later. After this chanting became very popular, I’ve heard many historians say that it was Hindu sannyāsīs who became the sufīs or the daraveśas, and they started this type of Muslim offshoot. It’s a kind of a combination between Hindu and Muslim. In Islam it says, specifically, you shouldn’t play any instruments when you’re doing namaz. In namaz you shouldn’t do singing and dancing. It’s definitely the influence of India. Doesn’t exist in Arabia, or Persia or any of these areas. Only when you just start coming over Eastern Iran, Pakistan and Northern India, when they start to mix the Islamic and the Vedic-Hindu cultures, that time the Vedic culture in Islamic there was a few mixtures, that’s when it started. Lord Caitanya’s not influenced by them. And His style of chanting is also totally unique. Use of the clay drums… this is imitation of fiber glass, but the clay drums, the karatālas, it’s not imitating anyone else, it’s original. No one else ever did that before as such, exactly in that form. Wooden drums… sitting down they would do but His drums, everything, that was unique contribution. Also I went to Iran. There are some sufīs there but now their dancing is totally different. It’s not a very spontaneous type of dancing. Its forced. They get into it, but someway it’s completely different. But they joined our kīrtanas in Iran before they became very heavy. There are very incepted sufīs amongst Muslims. We don’t accept that alone. That might apply to any representative of Lord Caitanya or any representative of God. But Hussain Shah could realize that. Hussain Shah saying whether someones God or not doesn’t make much difference. Vedas say Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa That’s how we accept it. The fact is in his own logic he could understand that he is a divine person. Even as a Mohammedan ruler, he was pretty intelligent. But if someone is dedicatedly working and actually not getting any material remuneration, they’re simply working for spiritual motives, well that would be a sign that such people are representing Kṛṣṇa or God in some form. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said that Christian missionaries, they all get salaries. He said this is not going to be able to distribute love for Godhead if all of the preachers are simply working for salaries. You don’t pay them salary, they don’t work. That’s material. Should be some higher motivation than just giving salary. So I don’t know what higher groups work. But basically they just take what they need to lead a simple life. They actually could get more doing other things outside They voluntarily accept an austere way of life, simple way of life in order to preach Krsna consciousness. That would be the first criteria but whether the group is bonafide or not… even if the group is religious it doesn’t mean that the person is an avatāra. You have to see whether he has prediction in the scriptures. Whether he has those type of qualities. If you understand how the Mohammedans, even Hussain Shah, he would go down and break Krsna temples. He wasn’t just a docile person. He was a ferocious Mohammedan ruler that time. But he gave an order that no one should interfere with Caitanya Mahaprabhus saṅkīrtana. Nobody should interfere with Lord Caitanyas movement. There’s no parallel to that. It has historical value rather than any spiritual evidence. Like if the United Nations declares someone to be an avatara or not, it doesn’t make any difference. Whether any head of state, king or Prime Minister, that’s their opinion. Its not absolute. Infact a Mohammadan had that opinion is historically interesting. Just how great an influence Lord Caitanya had at the time that He was in on different persons. This proves that Lord Caitanya is an incarnation of Krsna. Vedas are the authority for that. Lord Caitanya obviously knew the mind of Hussain Shah. The fact that He knew his mind is something that is extraordinary. Otherwise some sannyāsīs in India say the Buddha mentioned in the Bhāgavatam. Under the Bodha-gayā Tree. Same place another Buddha achieved realization right after that. I don’t know the authority of all that.

On atonement: In the Bhāgavatam elaborate study on prāyaścitta, atonement, how does a person get purified for doing evil things or bad things, others doing bad karmas? Even you put someone in jail, even they know that what they did was wrong, still when they get let out, they go on do the same thing again. So then what’s the value of atonement? It was a very interesting discussion between Śukadeva and Parīkṣit. Śukadeva was testing Parīkṣit. So basically the point is that simply by performing pious activities doesn’t take away the desire to act in bad karma, or sinfully. Similarly, just punishment alone doesn't take away that desire. Some people, even they directly suffer, if put in prison get punished, still they go on do the same thing. Think that next time I won’t get caught or something. They can’t control their senses. The point is that Lord Caitanya is actually changing the heart of people. That after getting the mercy of Lord Caitanya, they wont do these things again. Their tendency will be controlled. Jagāi and Mādhāi, they were very horrible people before they were delivered. Once they were delivered, they were perfect Vaiṣṇavas. They didn’t break their vow to Lord Caitanya. They followed very strictly. Say somebody gets a taste for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness that they develop their love for Lord Kṛṣṇa by Lord Caitanya’s mercy automatically they get all good qualities and the desire to do bad, or materialistic things, it is gradually eradicated from the heart.

janayaty āśu  vairāgyaṁ
jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
(ŚB. 1.2.7)

Spontaneously knowledge and renunciation appear in the heart - ahaitukam. it’s no material cause for that. So this all part of the bhakti principles. Lord Caitanya is giving bhakti so there’s a change of heart. By chanting a person experiences a change of heart. Their attitudes, their outlook changes. So that’s different. You set criminals free but they go on doing crimes. So that’s why Lord Caitanya, He was strict for His followers. That if you take a vow to act in a particular way, you should stick by it. So he was strict with Haridāsa, Junior Haridāsa, Choṭā Haridāsa. There are few examples of people falling into some kind of māyā, but generally that tendency was so for few careless examples. Actually that tendency is changed. That’s what’s unique, because in the material world the governments are frustrated. They don’t know how to rehabilitate criminals. Criminals remain criminals. No matter how many times you put them back in prison, some hard-core criminals, nothing they can do to change them. Two-time losers, three-time losers. Again and again they get put in prison. But Lord Caitanya’s movement changes the heart. It’s actually a revolutionary process. It’s actually a revolution in the consciousness and the sinful lives of the people ‘jana rāga viplavau’. Some qualities spontaneously come, but the same time one can practice. We follow sādhana bhakti. Perfect thing is if one directly can always think of Kṛṣṇa, never forget Kṛṣṇa. But if one’s not able to do that, then we practice sādhana-bhakti - the regulative practice of devotional service, where we practice remembering Kṛṣṇa, practice serving Kṛṣṇa. So similarly, a pure devotee may spontaneously exhibit Vaiṣṇava etiquette. But we don’t wait for that stage even while we progressing on the way back to home back to Godhead. We try to assimilate what is the proper etiquette, how does one act and interrelate with the Vaiṣṇavas. So if one cannot develop love for Kṛṣṇa, if one doesn’t know the proper Vaiṣṇava etiquette, you’ll commit offences. If you commit offences, how will you develop love for Kṛṣṇa?

Verified By Vinoda Gopīkeśa Dāsa 21-12-2024 in Śrīdhāma Māyāpur