19920313 Śrī Caitanya Līlā Series - 2

(Disclaimer: The following is a machine-generated transcript and may contain errors or inaccuracies. It will be reviewed and verified against the original audio soon.)

The following is a lecture on “Śrī Caitanya Līlā Series-2” given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami Mahārāja on March 12, 1992 – in Śrī Māyāpur, India.

So we’re continuing with the Congregational Preaching workshop. As usual. It’s kind of a balancing act as going between different meetings and committees and things. But the first session we actually discussed about the legacy of Congregational Preaching left by the previous cryas Rla Prabhupāda. We also gave an overview of what’s happening in Namhad india and there was some question and answer session. So traditionally this there’s more of an interactive kind of a workshop where we like to hear from the different devotees who are doing Congregational Preaching as well as any of the problems or any of the high points that they have encountered. So it’s an opportunity for those who are interested in a Congregational Preaching to get an awareness about what’s happening in different parts of the world.

Last year we had a special presentation from Germany and from South Africa as well as from Yugoslavia. This year I asked for we’re going to probably get a presentation from the UK tomorrow and then this afternoon I asked for a presentation from Poland and other what was previously the Eastern bloc. But it’s difficult to organize in some respects the seminars because we never know who’s going to come any given year. And so we don’t have it networked out so well yet. So it’s as we’re going on, we’re meeting people today Madhu Savita Prabhu was going to give a presentation on Italy but he sent in a sick note saying he’s feeling very sick. So. Are you ready to give us some talk on the what’s going on in Poland? He’s also sick.

He’s sick. So I will say a few words so.

You can sit up here. Sit under.

So I am from Poland, I am Jagdish Amaraj, disciple. My name is. And we had a. Like a. Our traditional Preaching is a Preaching especially at the open programs we are Preaching.

But.

Through open programs it was like things usually at least the less quantities 100 people which attend each program. Usually every temple held once week programs for people, open program with Bhajans classes, Prasadam Kirtans. So I am living in temple in Warsaw. So our program is attend between 100 up to 250 person a week. In Poland we have no life membership unfortunately because it’s a like a kind of collection money. So our main business is good distribution. So last year we organized Namahat Preaching. So Indridinda Maharashki is in charge of Namah Preaching in Poland because actually we have three temples in Poland, one in Warsaw, second in Wrocaw and The third is farm. But actually in every bigger city are staying devoted. We are Preaching. So it’s like spontaneously became a Namah system all over the world. But it was like working unofficial.

Now we make it official. We put. Oh my God. We put Indri Duma Maharaj in charge of Namahad Preaching in Poland. So he made original commanders like 12 people. So this commander has a particular area to visit every week or every two weeks and preach to make festivals. So a lot of people are joining because actually our temples are very small. So we should act according the circumstances. So a lot of people are living outside the western country is a blackboard downstairs. You must live in a temple.

See if it’s free to bring up here either one.

As far as I know, Germany and Sweden. So in Poland most of the Ducati are living like outside. So now we made a system for them and possibility to take initiations in the future to became maybe in a temple again in the future. So now we have like a few more places which are very big and wants to be a temple. They are actually on rather regular temples. So last year we had a Namahat festival in Nyushantipur at our farm. So around 3, 350 people attend this festival. It was huge, like for Polish condition. Of course, not only it was very big festival. Our farm is in Walley. So all Wole was packed with devotee. We held programs, different seminaries. Shahridana the Maharaj came to Poland, Indriduma Maharaj came. Kṛṣṇa etc for a while so many devotees.

So we have a big festival for the first time. But unfortunately this year we cannot do this because. Our schedule has changed. So last year we also organized Goranga Bajan band tour in Poland. Probably was the biggest one. Now probably the Russian will be bigger. So this program was prepared by my guard Margaret Vikubu. He was the main organizer of this. You can say a few words about this.

In October again in the 12. Begin will be in the WROCAW. Last year in VA was the biggest program in the whole. About 6, 7, 7,000 people danced with Hare Kṛṣṇa Kīrtana. Today this year will be also in the same place in Wroclaw. But the biggest one will be in the Katowice. It is main call Oregon and in this hall there are the biggest hall which placed about 10,000 people. We expect full this tournament will be in the seven places in capital in Warsaw, in Lodz, in Gdask which is in the main town in the sea, Baltic Sea and Finnish will be in Poznan, which is town fair. City Poland first city. And we expected two times more people like last year. About about 50. About 50,000 people this year.

So we also organize a tour for Indra Duna Maharaj. Because we figure out that the Preaching to making festivals has not so big. Repercussion results result as a Preaching which did Indra Dumila Maharaj. He used to travel with a hundred devotees around the Poland during summertime at the holiday places like lakes and coast. So they did a lot of programs, a lot of harinam. They distributed a lot of books. Actually they were like a whole group was the third in Poland. So a lot of people join after their tour. So we want to repeat it once again this year. So Indra Dymna Maharash is coming for six weeks for this Preaching tour. So of course I want to invite everyone, if someone is interested in this to come to Poland for Preaching. So it’s welcome.

And we also maybe in the future want to organize Rādhā Yātrā in Warsaw. But it requires more effort. Preaching of Indriduma Maharaj was the most successful.

So I don’t know how many such groups are there. He said that every major city in Poland has Congregational group. How many groups are we talking about?

So. Around 15 cities in which we had 15 cities. I mean, I want to say that Poland have 35 million people. And it’s like, I don’t know, 400 kilometers from one side to the other. So it’s not so big. So now in the 15th major cities are a group of devotees which are holding programs. Every week’s programs and so called namahat Preaching. It means the second time at a week. They had meetings twice a week. Once open program with posters, everything. And the second is like for more interested people, just more philosophical points. They are also holding morning programs. Sometimes it happens that devotees are renting together flat or house and they are living together. So it’s like. It became like a center and distribute also books. So we also started this year. Last year we started with prasadam distribution. It was very successful.

Who does the prashad distribution? The Congregational members, The Namhat members themselves. Yeah, I heard that there was about 60. 60 Groups in Poland. Is that exaggeration?

Well, because not 60 group. It depends how to count. Just everything was changed for a part is bigger, you know, it became like a more. More together. Some devotee moves from the other places to live together.

Consolidated some of the smaller groups.

Yes, yes, smaller these groups are they.

Conducted mostly by initiated devotees or uninitiated devotees that later become initiated devotees. And how do they start?

Yeah, before it was that system in Poland was like that who was living outside, there was no chance to get initiation because there was no system how to recommend them. So after sometimes it changed. So it happens that few devotees from Poland which were staying outside, they get initiation. Let’s say they were living at a farm for a half year or a year and two years. So they get initiation. So they came back to their place, so they start Preaching. But of course also happens at start they start Preaching also not initiated devotee. And after some time, because of their Preaching activities, they got initiation. So now generally the Polish rules are more liberated and we establish some rules after how much time one can get initiation and in which ways so many few rules.

So now most of the devotees from Namahat are initiated. So our Namahat is like just devoting.

So.

Most of these namahad are chanting 16 rounds for regulative principles and they are expecting initiations. So most of them are young. It’s very extremely important. It’s very difficult to bring the older people. Just a lot of young people are joining us. Well, the minimum is a minimum, at least one round and give up meat eating, intoxication. So it’s the first step. But usually Poland is a. Maybe not Poland, but all this eastern country specific because usually people start from the. From this platform. Sixteen rounds and at least three principles. So we are. Yeah, so we are interested in everyone who is at least taking interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Somehow another, you know, he appreciate the philosophy, he appreciate prasadam, he appreciate music, appreciate so many things.

Can you hear back there?

Oh, how many numbers of Namah devotees you have?

Namah devotees? It’s hard to say because we have no how to say list. Just we made one because everyone from this original commander was supposed to make a list of devotee. So from each place it’s like 30, 40 devotees. So by 15 is giving.

600 To a thousand.

Yeah, it’s like these people hard to say because this, let’s say very strict cruel is smaller. And after it’s coming more and more. So Namahat is very successful because a lot of people cannot stay in the temple because of some troubles like a school family. So now we had a system to preach them in their place. So now we also prepared a bhakta program by mail, just by correspondence.

I don’t know how to Correspondence Bhakta program?

Yes, my English for Namah devotees. It’s also because sometimes it happens that someone is chanting 16 rounds and follow principles, but he doesn’t know which hand to use for eating or how to do a lot of practical things.

So how do you manage that?

Well, so I can personally say about myself, you know, that in such places where he’s initiated devotees, there is not so many problems because he’s giving example. But if Namahat start from the not initiated devotee, just by that someone was two days at the farm, he like it. So he start chanting, he preached to his best friend, you know, they became like a devotee. So in such places there is more problems just to not speculate and not to be sentimental, but learn philosophy.

Okay, let’s take it from the top. Somebody visits the temple, they like it, they go home, they start chanting, they preach to their friend, they start chanting. How do you know that these people exist?

Well, first of all, now we had if someone is interested in this, so we know from which place he’s coming. So we are giving him address. Oh, this city is very close to you, or you are living in that city, there are devotees. So you can meet him or you can go so you can get more details, or he can give you some help, you know, spiritual life. And also the original commanders are responsibility about taking care about these people. So we got a lot of regional commander. Regional regional commander? Yeah, regional.

He said that they divided up regional commander to supervise a certain number.

Yes,.

They’re the stronger division.

Yes. So system is like that Indiduma Maharaj like in charge. And after his secretary, now it’s one devotee from Gdansk. So he’s keeping like in touch with all these regional commanders and he’s giving information to Indudima Maharaj. So these regional commanders are in touch with this smaller city, you know, in their zone. So they travel around. So we also are getting letters from the people which are, let’s say meta devotee or meta books. So they want more books or go more or closer contact. So we also answer these letters and give them addresses of these Namah centers so they can come to such places. Before what happens that we sometimes didn’t know that someone is existing even and he doesn’t know that we are existing Poland. But now it’s changed. But because of Poland is just very closely covered by these centers.

And Hare Kṛṣṇa became well known in Poland.

Any other questions?

So what?

Just to summarize that previously the NHAT was in previously ISKCON and Poland was underground. So they had people chanting all over the country. And then when it became legalized, they set up three, four temples. And then what happened is all the people that were still in their homes chanting. Then they became organ, but didn’t join the temples. They became organized as Namhat groups. And that recently has been formalized. Before, it was more informal. And these groups, they have one open meeting where they invite people to come there. And they have one intimate meeting where they. Where it’s those who are more into it, more chanting and get into more the detail. They have organized regional commanders for 12 or some area of the country to supervise the big and small cities and to expand more Namhat area.

In those particular areas, they had annual festival of the Congregational members. They had a traveling Bajan band which helped to promote the whole ISKCON in the country. That to be a recognized member of the Congregational program, they should be vegetarian and not take intoxication and chant at least one round. They got a correspondence bhakta program where they further cultivate them. There’s a nucleus of about 30, 40 members for each of the groups. And every visitor that comes to their temple, they are referred to the nearest Namhat group to their home so that they can go on getting other association. Does that summarize what you said? I think there’s a lot of important points there. Especially I like the last point.

I thought it was very interesting because when I did the course, the monitor survey of ISKCON’s Congregational Preaching, which I will go over in detail on the last day, we found out that 45% of the temples in ISKCON only preach to people that walk in their door. They don’t have any other program to preach to people that don’t come and they sell books or something. But actually Preaching to people individually is who comes to the temple, 45% of those that replace, and 20% in the immediate city where the temple is. That means 65% or 2/3 of all the temples in ISKCON don’t have a program outside of the temple city. The temple or the temple city. So that means, you know, we may have 300 centers in the world, but that means most of them are only dealing with their.

Their city or even the people that come in their temple. So here we see that by having these kind of groups all over the country, say someone goes to the temple, they tell them, oh, you’re from such and such place, you know, near where you are. We have a regular program every Thursday or Friday or Saturday or whenever they meet. Here’s the address. And you can go there, and you can. You can go to their program and get some association. So by doing that, then the Effect of Preaching is spread out a much wider area. Another question as an effect of this kind of reciprocation between the Namhat groups and the temple.

What I understand is probably the Namhat groups are sending a lot of people to visit the temples to see the details, deities especially when they go to the farm or go to the capital city. And then you’re sending the people back again to the Namhat groups. If they’re living outside, do the temples get more devotees by this process or are they losing devotees? Everyone is leaving the temples and living out in the congregation because they don’t have to be a surrender devotee. Or is it rather that more people are joining the temples because of all this Preaching?

What’s so in Poland it’s like that we have very small temples and we have a lot of people who want to join the temple. So Namo hut is like a first net, like making a choice first. We try to advise them to just wait a little bit so I can say personally about my temples that we made them system that if someone want to join a temple and he’s watch out and he’s from the place where is.

Confirmed.

From the place where is Namahad Center. So first I am asking about this person, the leader from the center or Namahat commander, regional commander. So at least I know what kind of person he is. And because during few minutes we can have plenty of people in the temple but we have no place for them to live.

Some of the people are not useful.

And some of them better for them is staying longer, let’s say in Namah centers. And sometimes they are very okay.

See, Poland has a unique problem. They have small temples and so many people want to join that they’d fill up the temples too quick. It’s not the same problem they’re facing in many other places.

This summer I have two reservations for two boys which are coming, you know. So I am thinking where to send two devotees from my temple.

Probably for Sunkirk the paramount does exist.

In some places.

Temples just don’t have.

A lot of facility. So it’s connect also that because of the. Because of that the templates are very small. So the devotees are congregating the other places. Let’s say now in Gdask there’s big. They rent a big house. So they became like a regular temple. So the devotees from area or north Poland they are joining that center and it becoming like a regular temple.

This is what last year when they gave the report from Germany, Satchinandan Maharaj he said one of the biggest problems in his he’s overseeing the Namhat in Germany is that the Germans are very, you known to be very fired up people. When they take up something, they tend to take it up very emphatically. So when they take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Namhat, one of his major problems is that after some time they get so much into it, they move together, they rent a house, they start to chan, have regular daily programs that before a few years go by, it becomes a full blown temple like in Berlin. The present ISKCON temple used to be a naamhat. So from the Namhat point of view, he’s losing all his naamhats. But from Iskcon point of view, we’re gaining so many temples.

So he was being a little joking that this is their only problem with Naamat, that they all become temples. So of course that’s not a very big problem. But it shows a more organic development of a temple. Before we would do more like parachute people in, alright, we need a temple in Africa, we need a temple in this country. Nobody’s there. Send out a few scouts to go rent a house, start exploratory program, do some harina, make some devotees, establish Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That’s more like a beachhead, like when troops would attack by sea and then land somewhere and start to invade a country or something. But here we’re seeing that in a more systematic approach.

When you’re already in a country, then you encourage people to chant and practice all over the country and organize them and supervise them and organically, as the local congregation grows and the number of devotees are more dedicated, enthusiastic, then it automatically grows and they get inspiration and more like you see that there are so many churches in America. The local people of a particular denomination, when there are enough quantity and there is enough devotion, then they start building their churches and you find that new communities get new churches. So automatically these nahats build their own temples, develop into a fully sky and center. So it’s like a new era in expanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but the more broad base. Maharaj, we’re very honored that you came here today. Do you have like to tell something about Congregational Preaching in Canada?

I actually came here for purification and I wanted to come yesterday, but I was too tired. We in Canada we have.

Thank you, thank Kṛṣṇa Das and Margaret from Holland.

I want to thank my guru Maharaj. But in this situation we organize all this money on Hata because we got here class about Namahada, how he’s organized india. So it was like our inspiration to do the same in Poland and it became successful.

Actually. It’s very inspiring to come here and see the devotees and hear the Preaching that’s going on in the ex communist countries of the world in Canada, especially Vancouver and Toronto, although I am not Preaching so much in Toronto as I am in Vancouver. We are blessed with having a very active Indian community and such that we have many people who are in the Indian community who begin to chant 16 rounds and who take initiation and who develop in Kṛṣṇa consciousness like that. And we even have other devotees who.

Are.

Westerners, Canadians who have started to where they started gradually chanting 16 rounds. And we felt that it was important to encourage people even if they weren’t living in the temple. And we started giving initiation to devotees that were not living in the temple. And we found that has had good results. For example, there was one boy who was Bhaktar Rab. He was one of these straight edge boys. They have a straight edge scene there. And we encouraged him to start chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and he was living outside the temple. He eventually took initiation, continued to chant 16 rounds and just recently decided to join the Kṛṣṇa Fest program. So we have experience that previously. Okay, we have experienced that previously. Our. I suppose I should come right around. No, that’s okay. It’s too much endeavor to move around in heat.

We have experienced that previously. We had a very narrow minded conception of that. Unless somebody lived in the temple, they couldn’t be. If somebody was living outside the temple, they were basically considered ostracized or they weren’t accepted, they were socially unacceptable. But as I travel quite a bit around North America and Canada, in addition to being in Vancouver, and I see this conception as pretty much gone most places now. Devotees have expanded their consciousness to realize that many people who are living outside the temple, including householders and so on, are still, you know, our men and who are still capable of Preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So in Vancouver we have that concept. Without that we. Because we have a very small crew of Brahmacharis in the temple.

But we do have a very large community, Indian community, in different stages of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, many of whom are initiated or aspiring for initiation. And so I guess that’s our blessing there. And we have been working on that, developing that. It’s about all I can say.

How big is the congregation of the Vancouver temple?

Well, lately we have been getting about 400 people, three to 400 people for the Sunday feast. And about 90% of those will be Congregational members on Janmastami we had about 10,000 people and probably about half of those would be. Probably. We have about 5,000 Congregational members. Realistic, active, you know, fairly active Congregational members.

Are there any groups outside the temple?

No. That’s why I am coming here to learn about how to organize these things. We don’t have any. We do have pockets of devotees here and there. We have pockets of devotees and Victoria and other places, but we have no formal organization of those devotees.

It seems like a very nice bridge. Anyone else has come here to give report. To give a. You know, english.

Actually, in Russia we have maybe about.

What’s your name again?

Prabhu Naravapu. I am disciple of Śrīshnapat.

Naravapu from.

From Leningrad, St. Petersburg. We have maybe about. In Russia, maybe about 20 centers, which means namahat and one to temple. Maybe not big temple as india and western countries, but temples where every day people. Have opportunity, see life. What’s the way of life.

Hold on a second.

How these devotees.

It’s a lot of examples.

Turn it off.

I am from St. Petersburg, but in all Russia. Preaching is going like different. Different kind of Preaching is on different part of Russia. In St. Petersburg we have auspicious program for Preaching people in house of culture. Yes, house of culture. We have such type of house. I know that in western country. No, no, no. Like this. No, no such.

Do you have any such house?

No, we have in city, every city. We have very much, very many halls of culture where you can see other. Different kind of culture. And we have two, three program in a week.

Excuse me. House of culture is a devotee run house or is it government house?

No, no, Government house.

Government.

Government house.

Okay.

Yeah.

What he’s saying is that the government has made many different kind of halls called houses of culture in different places. So that these are available for any group to use within for certain purposes.

Is that right? Community halls.

Community halls. They call halls of culture. They have some community halls in other countries, but not so extensive as what you’re saying.

And we have also in Moscow, in St. Petersburg we have nos else such program. But in Moscow, this program, it began food for life. Two times in week devotee go out in the on car. They have maybe five, six kind of prasada and freely distributed this prasad. In. Airport. In. Airport. In street people are very. Have. Expression, very big expression for this work. Because in Russia we have no very many food. People can buy food on one month quantity which is not possible for life. And when they see that Hare Kṛṣṇa freely distributed that prasad and frilly. They very shock. Very big appreciation. In Russia, we have maybe already 15 ratayats. That retreat. Maybe after this retreat. After this, maybe about 50 devotees come to Hare? Kṛṣṇa Centers. After this, 15 others do.

Fifteen in one year?

No, maybe three years. Three years? Yeah. In six or seven city. We have also restaurant, small restaurant in Leningrad, St. Petersburg and Moscow. In I don’t know where is in St. Petersburg, very big Preaching. Was down this small restaurants go in these restaurants and all devotees was come in Hare Kṛṣṇa. Actually, through these restaurants. In St. Petersburg we already have no temples. We have only small house. Small house. Whereas maybe 50 devotees Sakirtana lives. And from this little house, devotees go out for Sankirtan. Other. City. Other city near St. Petersburg.

It.

(Side B of the Cassette)

And the government, by good preaching in St. Petersburg, donated two church and three restaurants for freely. Freely distributed prasadam. Three restaurants for freely distributed prasadam and two church for cultivation Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

How many? You’re saying that your temple in St. Petersburg is small, so you have regular programs in the culture house of culture. And there are many. How many in Russia? How many? You consider that a temple though, or a nan Hut nhat?

No temple. Temple. Only in Moscow, big temple like this.

How many such temples or nahats are there?

20, About 20.

20. I don’t know. Other. The other states of the previous Soviet Union.

Other states?

Other countries of ussr.

What is about.

Commonwealth?

I don’t know actually. But in Russia, in whole Russia, maybe 2020.

I have a question that you mentioned that you’re freely distributing prasadom food for life, but you also said that food is very difficult to get. It wasn’t clear to me where the.

Devotees get their food. Actually, all organization which is registrated in government already, they. Get without problem. Get food from supply. Yeah, for supply. But ordinary men, he. They must buy in shops. In shops, not shops, not very good supplying. Not very good supplying shops. But in this supplying, yeah, very many products have.

In New York temple we have about six Russian devotees. They were new devotees who left Russia. One of them told me he left because he couldn’t get nice prasadam. Is that a problem?

No, not. Maybe 50, maybe five, maybe four, three years ago.

Maybe this problem now there’s nice Persona.

Very nice. Actually, when spiritual master come in Russia, we have to cook. Which cooking how? Say Gopalpishnika Swami Niranja Swami. So I would say that even india not such type cooking.

Prasad. I don’t know if you have seen all the prasad when they cook india.

Now that you have taken prashad here, what do you think?

Very good. Yes. The most beautifuls in Russia. Usually. Usually we have no such type prasada as you have. It’s india. But if we have. If. If spiritual master comes. But in restaurant we have very nice prasad. Very nice. But no.

So is it safe to say that if somebody comes to the temple, they will get better food, more varieties of food than they would before they were living in the temple?

Yeah, because maybe three years ago begun.

Okay, my next question is there a problem that people are coming because things are nicer in the temple than outside the temple and not for spiritual life? Is there a problem like that? Understand my question. In other words, do you have a problem that some people are coming to The. The temple because there’s better food and there’s better living conditions, and not because they’re interested in spiritual life. They’re coming for material comforts, but not because of interest in spiritual life. Do you have a problem like that?

I am such example. Okay.

He said I am such an example.

Because actually, no, after. After. After a good preaching, sometimes not. Sometimes people actually really see things. If this we can see, we can say very good. Say we can. Your speech very good and very beautiful. But if you not sure what you do. This not very beautiful. If you see that’s a practical example that you’re preaching this. Food, very good food, very good. Life, very good. All very good. If you see practical, maybe you’re not very interested in philosophy, but that after philosophy. After. In Russia. In Russia, that. Such. That.

So there’s only one temple in Russia.

One temple.

Only one temple in Moscow distributed a few books.

Yeah.

But in. In St. Petersburg you have like. You must have some altar.

Yeah, altar. Yeah. DG. We have maybe six, seven deities. Gornatai.

67 Sets of Gornatai deities.

No, six, seven devotees have deities on house. His own house and small temple.

Because a few years ago, the Russian devotees purchased 40 sets of Guy deities and brought them to Russia. They are mostly for like Namhata devotees. Understand? A few years ago, Russian devotees purchased about 40 sets of Gornatai deities.

40.

Yeah. So my question is, where did they go? Did they go to Namahata?

Yeah.

Places.

Yeah. Not. Not. Yeah, Namahata. And devotee.

A Namahata center means a. Like a married devotee who is living. Living in the city. And he starts chanting 16 rounds. Okay.

Like in St. Petersburg, there’s a head of the. Of all those devotees. There’s somebody who’s considered the head.

Head.

Head means leader. Coordinator. The leader.

Yeah, yeah.

And he’s approved by the GBC and by the National Council or something.

Yeah.

Who is the leader in Saint Petersburg? Basuda. What’s your service?

My service? I am little president in city. Small city.

You are head of another, smaller city near Saint Petersburg.

The name of that city is Siktif Kar Sikh Tifkar. You asked.

I am sorry.

I can play.

That’s like Sibir. Sibir.

Around St. Petersburg, how many groups are there?

Five, maybe five.

Five. Each group has how many members?

Maybe five, six. But that’s. That’s groups. Not. Not. Huh.

Like Nucleus. It’s like a very active members.

Yeah. They actually have program distribution. Not organizing temples, but only distribution. And in this. And if. There Is case they of course do program, make program.

Prabhu, you are Brahmachary. Did you live in the Moscow temple once? Did you ever live in Moscow temple?

I.

Yes, yes.

Little this. Now I live in Sukhtavkara.

Okay, I understand that. How do you.

Are you like.

Full time engaged in Kṛṣṇa’s work or do you have to have some other job or.

No, no, actually who come to temple. And generally they have no work. Another I have no other work only.

So in your city, your center is listed as a temple. I mean, the government considers it a temple.

How much?

No. Does the government consider your house a temple?

No. As temple? No, it’s simply as house of preaching, not considered as temple. Because that’s house, not temple. Simply house. The devotee back up to this like this. 50 Devotees live maybe two room like in building.

Well, you can see that these many of these so called, you know, nav huts are going to develop as they’re like preaching centers.

Just trying to get some kind of conceptualization because it’s a different country.

But now government donated in Leningrad to church, big church to this guy. Yeah, Musudama. Now he very big do big work about this.

So then you’re going to many of the devotees going to live in those churches or you going to stay in your small centers?

No, maybe in near. Near church. I will be like this. Hotel. Hotel.

Question.

Recall that using downstairs they use the pyramid. We have our own universe of congregational. Instead of trying to see it in terms of financial commitment, but rather in terms of spiritual involvement and spiritual advancement. So when you try to. We found a very effective means. If you have a step by step kind of a ladder, where you try to encourage these people to become like your namhat members or congregational members, to chant one round and to involve them in some kind of devotional service so they become somehow connected. Regularly come to the temple or come to a namah program. Then from those people, it’s easy to try to get them to go up to being a vegetarian if they’re not. And then chanting four rounds a day. And then we call them sevaks. It’s a term we use.

They’re doing seva, they’re doing some service, they’re chanting four rounds. Then when someone gets to that level, you try to encourage them to do sadhana, like offering their food in their house, teaching them more about to hold devotional principles. Get them to increase their aranch, to increase eight rounds a day and doing sadhana bhakti. Then they’re considered as sadhaks they’re actually doing this sadhana, regular practice, rising in the morning in their house and having a little altar, things like that. Then when they’re ready to actually they really want to dedicate themselves to prabhupāda’s mission. Maybe for some reason or another, they can’t live in the temple. So then you convince them to chant 16 rounds and follow the four principles in addition to the other things. So that’s when they take the shelter prabhupāda.

According to our GBC resolution, first you take shelter Prabhupāda, of course, within this is included, eventually they take shelter of the guru also, but that’s all the same standard. And then eventually they get harinam. Then from harinam they get second initiation. So this way, as I mentioned, not only in the temples, everything starts here, the tip of the iceberg. But in congregational preaching, you want to involve the people gradually. If you tell a person, a friend, yes, you want to be a devotee, you got to chant 16 rounds and four regular principals. It’s a big jump. They have to be very dedicated, very convinced to get up to that point. So practically what been happening is you try to get someone to join the temple via bhakta and then immediately get them to practice like this.

But outside of the temple, it’s very difficult to immediately do this. There are a few rare people that can do it, but if you approach in a very gradual way and if someone’s more fired up, they go higher automatically. But this way we have had really good success. Whenever we try to take people and preach to them in a more graded gradation or system, gradual system, and we found that they could relate and each step has seemed to make sense to them. Somebody’s chanting one round a day, four rounds is within their reach. Being a vegetarian is easy to convince people after a little bit of association. And then when they are vegetarian, four rounds for a while to do sadhana bhakti is not that difficult. I mean, it’s like you can preach to them.

You should really offer your food, you should do a little arty in your house or something. So then you get them and it increases from 4 to 8. So one of the ETC committee in charge of outreach programs of the GBC has approved a proposal that such kind of gradual programs for encouraging the congregational members to increase their spiritual progress is one of the supporting objectives of congregational preaching. It’s going to be sent out by correspondence to the whole GBC for the final wording. But in Prince of the Chetra committee is approved. So I thought I’d just mention you that this is one way of approaching it. I don’t say there may not be other ways, but this is one way of approaching. And we found a very good response.

And it’s obvious that here your base of people that are friends are much larger. And when you get people to actually chant around two a day, it’s a little smaller and they become more committed. So if you just encourage people to chant. Who are your friends? Just chant at least one round a day. And they say, well, I can’t chant. I am not ready. It’s too difficult. I can’t do all the things you’re doing. But when you tell them one round a day takes 10 minutes, it’s hard for people to say no. Especially we have even had very big revival kind of meetings here india with 10,000 people. And I tell them, look, in one day, there’s 24 hours. So 24 hours each hour is what, 4% of the date. So that means 15 minutes is approximately 1% of the date.

So we are asking to chant. One round takes seven and a half minutes. That means a half a percent of your date. If you buy traveler’s checks, it is 1%. So you have a percent of your date chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa one round a day. And this way, in a year, you will get so many. It adds up. Drop after drop adds up, and you get so much spiritual benefit. And Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad Gītā Swapama Pyasya Dharma Siya Mahato Chayatov Hoyat, that by even a small practice of Dharma, you can be saved from the greatest dangers. So by this kind of very simple presentation and encourage, we’d find that we give out little cards, Mahā mantra cards. You get thousands of people to say, okay, I will start chanting around today. And it’s called samskarpatra, as we called it, that they would agree to chant.

And when we did some nauhat tour, I found one of my initiated disciples on his bamboo house. He had nailed in one Saṁskāra Patra from 10 years before or eight years before that he had agreed to chant one round. He said, yeah, well, gradually from one, it went on. Once you get people to chant, it’s hard to get them to stop. But the whole thing is to get them to take the first step. So I wanted to show our own little pyramid here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That’s when you take shelter of prabhupāda. What they said, according to, you know, in the GBC it says you have to take shelter of Prabhupda first before you take shelter of a guru. So that level of taking shelter of Prabhupāda is four rounds and 16, four principles and 16 rounds.

So that’s when they’re really taking shelter of Prabhupāda’s full instruction. He promises if you do this, you go back to Godhead and then after six months you can choose a guru, then you can take shelter of some guru.

You have all this written down in English, this whole system. Like, you know, you’re, you. Obviously it’s well a well developed system, this whole system. But the requirements for each stage.

Do you have it written down somewhere here? I put in short form here. Before were doing it more as a spiritual kind of inspiration. But now because that wasn’t. There’s like a moratorium on doing it with any kind of ceremony. So instead we’re going to just give certificates and make it a formal thing. Just recognizing when someone reaches a particular level, no pledges involved or anything. So. I mean, this is the basic. That’s not very sophisticated. It’s pretty simple. You know, someone is doing one round or four rounds in Vegetarian, eight rounds in Sadhana, 16 rounds in four regular principles. And harinam qualification is. Everyone knows what that is. That’s, that’s the same as this, but you have to do it for a year and you have to find a guru and so on, pass the certain tests up to this level.

There’s no tests to choose a guru. Now in ISKCON you’re supposed to take a test. 13 Questions have been approved by the GBC and I presume that a lot of gurus also have people take tests when they give Hari Naam and they give second. I know a lot of gurus have tests. Harikesh Mirage has very extensive tests. I have some tests. I don’t know if everyone has a test. I didn’t do a survey on that. But through this kind of a gradual process, we found that we got a very good response. I will write it up and I am going to come out with a newsletter and I will write up in more detail. Yes, those pamphlets that you had yesterday,.

Do you have any more available?

All the pamphlets that were there yesterday are available with Badra Charu, who’s holding up the bamboo there. You should bring up every day the materials for sale and for free, whatever you have. So from tomorrow they will bring here. Also for those that want to see the namhat headquarters here, it’s just across from this building. On the ground floor there’s a big sign. Is it English or Bengali? Nauhat. If you go inside, there’s a little office and they have many displays and things. And otherwise he will bring up here some. This Prabhu from France would like to. What’s your name again? Prabhuaz Das Pittavaz. Famous.

Hare kṛṣṇa. Just as Nara said. I came here actually to get inspiration from all of you. France now, although in the past has been one of the highest temple and book distribution is now suffering. Is in great trouble. There’s very few books distributed. It’s very hard to make devotees financially. We are also facing great difficulties. And actually to hear from younger devotees what you’re doing, I feel very ashamed not to have much to present to you. And I think this is what’s wonderful in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that we can. A father can get inspiration from his child and we can learn even from a fool what to speak from a younger devotee who show you an example that inspires you. Now, when something goes wrong, we should not just cry from the past.

We should try to learn what we did that was not correct. And Śrīla Prabhupāda’s policy was to as soon as somebody was enthusiastic to preach was to send him and preach and eventually open a center. And it seems that it is what you are doing in all these eastern countries now. Russia, Poland, in France rather, we tried to do some very big centers in Paris, Newmayepur and financially it’s a big project. But we neglected the preaching in smaller towns and developed this Namahatha program. Thousands and thousands of books have been distributed. So nothing is lost. Now all these books are still waiting in some people’s home. Because the French people like books in general. They’re very philosophical people. They like to have books to read the books.

And eventually now what we need is to just go and get this bomb explode in these people’s home. After some problems we faced, the difficulty was that most of us, we tried to survive. Many older devotees got married and somehow they were not as free to preach as they could when they were Brahmacharis. So if there’s any advice I can tell you is that our movement can only survive if we go on making new devotees. Because Guriastha naturally has to maintain a family. He’s not as free as a Brahmachari. So this movement can go on. If we go on making new devotees, it will be Brahmachari who we will be more free for some time, until eventually some of them will marry.

Because it’s not that everybody can take this very strong vow of taking sannyas and be free to dedicate all this time to Kṛṣṇa consciousness 24 hours a day. When we become Briyastha, it’s a burden to raise up a family. And it’s another ashram, we have another D. We have to show the people how practically children can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. But our field of preaching is very much restricted. So you devotees from Russia, Poland, please try to make more devotees all the time, new bhaktas.

And.

In this way this movement will grow so much. I think now France will eventually grow again because many older devotees have been suffering from this lack of expansion. We become satisfied when there’s expansion, not just maintaining the temples. And we start realizing that instead of trying to get other God brothers to cooperate with us, let’s just wait for. For when they will be ready to do it. And let’s each of us try to make new bhaktas and eventually get the new bhaktas, help us to preach. This is the realization I have now. And if you all recent yatras have some advice to give us, because France is not the only problem facing this problem, maybe it has a problem to a bigger degree than some other countries, but other countries also have problems.

So we’re ready to take some of your advices because obviously Kṛṣṇa is giving you so much blessing that we should be stupid not to accept your advices. Haribo, if Maharaj has any comments, all.

I have to say is that.

I.

Have experienced in America that householders are in a very good position for naamata preaching better than Brahmacharis. And mostly I have seen that especially householders who are living away from the temple if they get in the mood, as Śrīla Prabhupāda was in Allahabad, of having a program in their home regularly, there is opportunity. Household life is not. Does not mean that because a household has to maintain himself that therefore there’s no opportunity for preaching. So we have seen in America and in Canada, the devotees who are especially devotees who are living away from householders, they do manage to, you know, get some opportunity for preaching.

And I think that the conception of us having to go buy a temple someplace, those days may be changing to the point where a temple in every town and village may mean that you have people, you know, householders especially, living in different towns and villages who make their homes in temples.

Actually, this is what we personally did with our family.

We.

My wife and myself, we took the burden of a whole herd of cows that nobody wanted to take care of. It was very difficult situation. Like all the temples also were facing this. We had. It came to a point in France we had more than 100 cows. And when the whole thing splated, nobody wanted to take care of these cows. So we took up the burden. And recently Kṛṣṇa really, he’s arranging different facilities now in this farm we’re keeping. The government just made a road for tourists to come because there’s too much farming. There’s an overproduction of grains. And now they’re trying to help the farmers develop tourism. So they made a small path for tourists to ride horses. And just in front of the farm and there’s a farming school. One boy, he comes every Wednesday and we drive him home.

We drive him back to the school with the bull cart, ox cart. So many people from the school, they get very enthusiastic. And he comes every Wednesday, which is the free day with friends also. And then the mayor of two cities, they ask us to come this summer with oxcart to make some programs. And we raised up the point that eventually some people might criticize that with devotees and why don’t we come to their program? They said there’s no problem. We all know you now and you can come with your bullcart. We will be very enthusiastic. So Kṛṣṇa now is arranging things and I have got great hopes now that France will eventually rise up again. Russian Yātrā, Poland Yātrā and preaching in the world, Kijay.

Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we started a little late and I had asked Malaysia Yātrā to give a short presentation. Do you all want to stay for another 10 minutes and hear Malaysia’s report? Next thing after this is Prashant, of course.

But they tell us that if you don’t go between two and two,.

So we will just limit it maximum to 15, 10 to 15 minutes. Then you have to go for Prashant. So this is our temple president of Kuala Lumpur. And he’s also the Secretary general or General secretary of International society for Kṛṣṇa Conscious Malaysia, Shingeshwar Das Brahmachari. He may explain something about what’s going on outside of the temple and with the congregational members that are connected with this temple in Malaysia.

Basically it’s nice to hear the devotees talk about Nāmahaṭṭa and preaching all over the world. It’s almost similar arrangement just that in our country there are 14 states. It’s a predominant Muslim religion. Official religion is Muslim. The races. Anyhow, still the races consist of Chinese Tamil, Malay, and different minor groups like Ceylonis and different groups like that. And this Malaysia is also divided into east and West Malaysia. East Malaysia means Sabha, Sarawak, connected with British Borneo. Where they mostly they are Christians on that island and now country. We have about 25 to 30 Namah centers, around 14 states. We have around 25 to 30. And this Namahata center, basically it means the same like different householders. They take care of house and their deities in Gonitai deities, Guru Paramparā. And then they have regular functions. They have Sunday programs which are the big programs.

And where there’s a state where there are too many namah groups in one state, sometimes there are about six which are about distance of maybe 20km or 14km from one another. We have the programs on different days, alternate days, so the different groups can come. And the different leaders would come and join in at the different Namah groups like that. So as far as book distribution is concerned, we have travelling sankirtan parties about 4, 4 vans with Brahmacharis travelling. And people are very actually shy in Malaysia. Actually the Matajis or women folk, mostly men, they do all the book distribution. They go out in rents. They go in different states. And then they distribute books. Mostly Chinese people. They take a lot of our books in English and Chinese language. And some Malay books are distributed to the Muslims.

Actually we can’t preach to them. It’s an official law. But still some Muslims, they come to inquire. Like in one instance, they are quite nice people, quite favorable. One instance where myself and Maharaj Pathijandra Maharaj, they want traveling Sankitan and doing some life members. And I was driving the car. Somehow or other I was so tired, I drove it into a ditch. Then one day, and then were stuck, just most of us, we couldn’t carry the car. So I got up and then immediately all the Muslims there were a lot of Muslims were standing nearby and they were pretty staunch Muslims with the hat and with the beard. And they said, no, you sit down. And they all came and they lifted the car and they said Hare Kṛṣṇa. We went off. It was very Muslim area, strong Muslim area.

So they are quite appreciative. And I was actually preaching to one Muslim gentleman. He asked me, who are you? I said, I am Hare Kṛṣṇa. And then he said, oh. Then he asked, what about your religion? And I started preaching about the principles. They like these principles. They like these principles like no gambling, no intoxication. These two, at least they appreciate this very much. And he said, oh, you should become A Muslim because he said I was following these principles. He said you should become a Muslim. So they are quite okay as long. But we preach like not too often. But we still have some books in Malay, indonesian language, which we give. And there are also some Muslims who are also vegetarians. Some Sufis are there like that. And mostly Chinese, like I said, they take our books.

So as far as namahat is concerned, it’s nice to do namah because for a country like Malaysia, not too many people are very rich, it’s moderate, there’s money. But at the same time not many big donors are there. So to maintain big temples is very difficult to have an overhead. And especially to make full time devotees is quite difficult in Malaysia. Quite difficult to make full time devotees. They are not distressed yet fully. So it’s easy to make congregation members. People like chanting, they like to become vegetarians, they like to dance, they like to do arati. So in this way, they like this principle, they may not become full time devotees. So namahat in this way serves the purpose because we have namahad and a lot of boys, they come, they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and they go, they take some books, they distribute books.

So this is enlivening. So we just have traveling parties who go and do kirtans, lectures, show some slideshows like that.

Traveling parties visit the namah?

Yes, they get enlivened. The traveling party gets enlivened because when they see these programs, they like to hang around these namah centers because. Because there are a lot of young boys and all that. So they always try to get them into. Try and drive them into the temple. We use different ways how to get them into the temple. Sometimes it’s successful. Many cases they are successful like that. And we do rathiyatras, about seven rathi yatras a year. We do around the country we have a towable cart, we do rathayatras and we plan to also do like two times parayatra a year. We did one in December. It was very successful. We had theme, of course, propaganda of pilgrimage against drug abuse. Pada and even the drug organization, they gave us a lot of pamphlets which we could distribute.

And to the Muslims we couldn’t distribute our books. So. So we gave these pamphlets and we got donations from these Muslims. They gave us donations using these drug pamphlets. They took a lot.

All these rath yatras organized by the temple.

Mostly the groundwork is done by the congregation members. The main organization just setting up dates, schedules like mostly I do most of the dates and all. But the actual work, like doing the groundwork, inviting people, sending out flyers, cooking prasad, distributing prasad, getting the card, decorating card. This is all done by the Naamahatta congregation members, including the finance, everything is done by them. Most of the Namahat for the Rathayatras, they print their own Rathayatra magazine. This way they get their finance together like that.

Each place has their own cart.

No, we. We have this card which was done by Rasananda Prabhu, which we tow it from place to place. Quite a nice cart. Even our bullockhat is, even our pariatra card is done in that manner. That if we do not get permits in one town, we can just put it on top of our food for life truck, drive it to another town and then start the walk from the other town. Because sometimes we may not get permits easily. In the main roads it’s difficult to get permits because when I used to go for the permit interviews, like for each district, sometimes we have to go for three interviews. One from the special branch police, one from the district police, and another police traffic police. So one time the traffic police was complaining. He said, you Hindus, you have 366 processions in a year.

He said, this is your problem. He said, even the Muslims, they don’t walk on the streets like us. They said. He said, you have more processions than the number of days in a year. Of course, there are many organizations in our country. So many. So there’s also competition among this. So basically it’s like that. And life members, they are very. A lot of life members. They also become devotees. When devotees travel, they stay in their houses and we stay in their house. First of all, we used to ask and we stay and they allow us. So as soon as we get a room, then we bring our pots in our whole paraphernalia, we start cooking and we give out prasad. And they become devotees like this. They like to take up Kṛṣṇa konjas.

Then the next thing is they like to chant and they like to do rathayatra. They all want to do a rathayatra. They like rathayatra a lot in this country. So I won’t take. Maybe I have taken. They also like festivals, Janvasami, Gopunima, all over the country. This is being done. But like I said, the next is like we are planning, hopefully we are planning to develop the Chinese preaching, which is very important. That is what we haven’t been really successful, but we get a lot of donations from the Chinese by book distribution. It’s mainly to the Chinese Life members are mostly coming from Indian origin, Indian, Hindus. But our book distribution is mainly on the streets or towns, mostly Chinese. They take these books and they appreciate it a lot. But for them to actually follow the principles is pretty difficult.

Actually, in one town there’s a Muslim ruler. In one state, he has actually declared like, no women above the age of 15 should go on the stage to act. That’s in Klantan. And yours also come out with a law. No gambling in the open and no intoxication. But the government is totally against it. But he’s somehow managing. So I stop here and say,.

Actually, Malaysia is flooding. It’s a small country. I think they have more rath Yatras per capita than any other country in the world. About 11 million and seven or eight rath yatras. They said they have one rath and a different congregational groups. They book the wrath and the devotees. From all over the country they come. And you’d be surprised that congregational members from. I mean, they bus in. It’s like, you know, big tourist buses. They come in to go to another group’s rath Yātrā.

It.