19820205 Evening Darśana

(Disclaimer: The following is a machine-generated transcript and may contain errors or inaccuracies. It will be reviewed and verified against the original audio soon.)

The following is an Evening Darśana given by His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami Mahārāja on February 5, 1982 – in Atlanta, USA.

Then come back. Lord Jagannath does have a right around. He has a Lakshmi that is there in Jagannath Purī. There’s a temple there of Lakshmi which is worshipped near Lord Jagannath temple. So they take her out of procession once a year to try to induce Lord Jagannath to come back early. But she’s not allowed in the door. But she did arrest a number. I mean she very nice pastime, the devotees and Jagannath. We all dress up like associates of Lakshmi or Jagannath. And they perform this drama. So that means you have a lot of dressing to do. You put garlands on it every day.

You know, only when. When we have flowers.

When we have flowers in summer, try to make gardens.

Of course.

It’s going to be new with Jagannath this year.

Pardon?

It will be new with Jagannath this year.

I have not had Jagannath very long.

You mean all the three just recently came?

No, no, no.

I have had Ra, Kṛṣṇa and no, the three Jagannaths. What is your good name?

What is my name? Oh, my name. Sorry. I was a non designated Eleanor Skeldon. I am a poet. Yes, I have been married.

I met you last time you came and visited here.

Oh, then I couldn’t remember. I was sitting in the rocking chair then.

Right.

I had forgotten.

I knew.

I meant, you know, I’d been in a situation like this some time ago. But I didn’t know who it was.

The girl.

Yes, I guess that was me.

No, because they introduced you last time as the poet. But I don’t know if you’re wearing a sari now.

No, because.

No, you come incognito.

May I tell you this about the sari? May I tell you this story about the sari?

No. It’s important.

Well, I guess it isn’t for a man. For a while.

You wear saris now, no?

Yes. Well, I used to wear saris now, but I was not a devotee. When the group went to India and I was passing through. Eleanor, what would you like from India? So I said, oh, bring me a red sari. I was not a devotee. But when they came back with a sari of the devotee.

Is that Mary?

Yes. That is the mercy of the Lord coming down. Lord Chaitanya. So now you have enough sarees or we should bring some more from India. Every time we bring more saris, we become more Deloitte. If that works, then that’s the easy.

There is like so many.

What color will make you more devoted? I don’t know.

Well, the first one was red. I said, I will bring me a red sari. After that it will be quiet. But it’s a very offhand remark, you know, I had absolutely no idea that it would be coming in as a devotee. Neither had they. But it was so kind and loving to me at this temple.

It’s one of the qualities of a devotee is to be a poet. So that when your one devotional quality is already you see manifested. So that’s what brought you closer to being devotee. Now you can write some poetry for Kṛṣṇa.

She used to come door to door selling her poetry.

She did.

Once she knocked on our door, still a poetry, and we traded. We gave her a book.

So that’s very nice. Śrīla Prabhupāda like that. Daily worship in the house especially. I am writing a book now on how to do daily worship in the home and how all these different things.

Yes, I have two questions about one. About six years ago or so in the Vatican island, there was an article about Utigon. And it was about how our jargon appeared. But he never gave like where it came from. And I never found anyone who knew where that piece started came from. You know, that one in the rayatry issue. And it was very detailed about, you know, just a big adventure, you know. And it was a long story. And I was just wondering where the.

Actual.

You know, story did people tell about the appearance of Lord Jagannath? Why Lord Jagannath appears in ways.

Well, in Jagannath Forei they have a couple different stories and one of them is authoritative and the others are not considered authoritative. They’re considered more like the traditional kind of just what the local people have different versions. But I can’t remember because I didn’t ever. I never read that particular article. So I can’t say that whether he’s taking it from the authoritative one or from the. Because we recently had a whole. When we took over Bhaktavino Thakur’s house in Jagannath Purī, the one his Bhajan Kuti, we had a huge legal battle to get it. They were saying that we couldn’t. And then we also had another legal battle in the Rath Yātrā where they said that were doing something wrong with our Rath Yātrā so they weren’t going to give us the road.

It was like they tried everything they could to stop us from doing Rath Yātrā and we had to do all type of research actually. What it was when went to print the article in the paper. Also the head of the paper said that your story is incorrect. And so then we had to do research and prove to him that our story was correct and from authoritative works. So I can give you the whole detailed authoritative story because we have just went through the whole thing, collected that. But that was being done by Sadhana Swami and a few other devotees that were battling it out. I can have that next time I come. I can give that or. Yeah, before the rath Yātrā.

The other question is very practical that there are two opposing camps. The question is it okay to put ostrich feathers down or try to turbans? It’s a big deal. People really get heated about it. Some people say that ostrich feathers are too impure and others say they do it in la so it’s too impure, you know. So what is the real position? Are they. Are they something you can actually use in PD worship?

Ostrich feather. What’s the white feather that Balaram wears in his hair?

Well, in the paintings it kind of looks like it’s ostrich. Is there ostriches there or anything?

I haven’t seen any. There’s a little bag civilization. Haven’t seen any ostriches. Of course, Judas Dare was in charge of Africa at that time. Baba Nandamarraj brings some far out feathers. Never asked him what kind they were. Are bird feathers considered to be impure? Skin bone is impure, but feathers I.

Think, well, peacock feathers.

They use human hair wigs on the deity.

Are they human or are they synthetic?

Nowadays some people use synthetic but in the ancient time, I mean they didn’t have synthetic hair. And the ladies would go and offer their hair. They still offer today you can get a good price but they offer their hair as an offering to the Lord in Tirupati and some other temples and they make wigs from those also for the deities india. So if a human hair can be used and possibly a feather could be used but I don’t know authoritatively. I haven’t got into the details, these type of details controversies of deity worship yet. Rla Prabhupāda was relatively simple in his approach to deity worship. He purposely told Arjunani Vas in the deity worship that the main thing was real dedication and cleanliness, timeliness. And when he showed him how to do the Shaligam worship and other things, he didn’t give the.

He said of course to follow the archna parity but didn’t Say, actually to go into so much detail, but stressed more on the dedication. It’s like Chanani Ras has been there worshipping the same deities for about 10 years. Just, you know, or more maybe 10 or 12 here, 10, 11. I hope Kṛṣṇa continues to bless him to do that service. But he’s. I know that one time Prabhupāda told one servant that he should just become the permanent. Like permanent Pujaris for the deities in Vrindavan. And then they asked what that meant. And he said, that means that you never leave the temple. You don’t even go in the marketplace. You’re always worshiping the deity. You’re always engaged. Just maybe one. You don’t go like to the market and associate other people. Just your life is the deity.

And the devotee God on the next plane flew back to America. But that’s very hard. I mean, we normally don’t have people, so we have to split it up, which is also nice. We also do that in Māyā. We have permanent one person, two people. And then we have other people share it. Prabhupāda said that the deity should look very gorgeous, should look very beautiful, should. I can. When I write the book, I will probably come up to those kind of things. What is usable in deity worship and not the Haribak to be lost. We can make a note of it if there’s any. You can give me a list. Maybe There’s a number of other controversies that are there in deity worshipped in the west as an ign. I don’t know what they all are. Do you have a question?

You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa also? Yes. You coming regularly? I was very lucky to come here today. I have been two or three weeks at least don’t live in the neighborhood anymore, so I come whenever. So we hope that you can come often and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa when you’re not here as a daily practice, so you can always keep in contact. Do you have a question? Well.

There are a lot of things that happened to me recently in my life that are real scary to me at this time. Like, I assumed that I was being with the right people and doing the right things. And then while I was pregnant, and then when my baby was born, we kind of had to have heart surgery. And so, like, I was surprised to put a big ego that was that, you know, my baby had to have heart surgery. And then during that, right after he had surgery, my daughter’s appendix ruptured. And I just felt like, I am so glad I don’t have two children. More than two children, because what would happen to the third one? What would that one do?

And then just recently, My cousin, who was like the very favorite person in my life, was suddenly killed in a car crash about three weeks ago. And then the strain was so much on my grandmother that she got put into the hospital. And so now she’s like. She’s 86 and she’s got a blood clot in her lungs and she could go any minute. And I am just afraid of what’s going to happen next. But I know too that I am growing from these situations and that my Kṛṣṇa is just so much more powerful to me. But I am still afraid of. Does it always have to her? Do I always have to lose something that I care so much about.

In this world? Everything that’s here is going to go birth, old age, disease, death. These are things which no one can overcome. Science is always talking about all the progress, but did not stop disease, nor old age, nor death, nor being born again. So there may be that we can now get around in a new automobile or we can fly by jet. We may have new wonder medicines, but now we have new wonder diseases that we didn’t have before. So the real thing is that just like in Māyāpur, there was a mother of six children who’s been chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. She’s not a devotee, she lives outside, but two of her sons are initiated. And she chants Hare Kṛṣṇa for about two, three years or more. She’s a Bengali lady. So she’s been chanting, worshipping Kṛṣṇa her whole life.

But as a member of our society, connected with our societies, to start seriously chanting, you could. Just like in America, many people may be Christians, but some may be serious about it, some may not. So india, there are some that are serious and some aren’t. So she’s been seriously chanting for about three years, reading the books. So suddenly her younger son was swimming in a pond and the son died, drowned. And I know that her other sons were the disciples of my Godbrother, Bhavananda Goswami, who stays with me at Māyāpur. And he goes out and preaches sometimes in New York and sometimes in Australia and Vrindavan. But were together there in Māyāpur from the start of Prabhupāda Sinistic nearly around the same time. So he was sitting in this. We have a wonderful park there. He was sitting in the park by the fountain.

And then he saw that the Nandi family, they’re called the Nandis, they were coming and he saw that there the Mother was laughing and she was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and she was very happy to be in Māyāpur. And he thought this must have been a false rumor, that actually her son didn’t die. Otherwise, you know, mother loses the son. Especially Bengali women. But in any mother naturally be very crushed. But she was apparently very much at ease. So when she came, he said, I heard this rumor that your son had died. She said, well, it’s not a rumor. And then the other members of the family, they were upset. It turned out that when they went and did the final rites and everything, everyone else was crying and was upset, but she wasn’t. Kṛṣṇa said, well, my son’s not dead.

That my son didn’t die. The bodies died, but he didn’t die. And I brought him into the world. And so now Kṛṣṇa is taken. What can I do? Why should I lament? All I can do is pray for his soul. So I want to go to Māyāpur and see my spiritual master and I want to see the deity and pray for the soul of my son. That the son isn’t dead now, his body in this life, his period is over. And so now he has a new life. But if I can pray for him, then that new life may be closer to Kṛṣṇa. And so she was just very pragmatic about it. She’d actually, she was a self realized woman. While even the initiated boys, they were a little bit upset to lose their brother more than she.

But she was seeing it from a very philosophical and transcendental point of view. She had actually understood that once you lose a person when your baby’s sick, you have to do everything you can to save. But once the baby goes, what can you do? Now in previous time this was very unusual that a son would die before a mother and father. That society wasn’t arranged in such a way that people would just suddenly die by these violent ways. You know, now we have these fast cars, but we’re going at breathneck speed. And I mean more people have died in car accidents than people died apparently I heard, than died in the second World War. So this is, you know, our progress in one sense that we’re paying a heavy price for it.

Before we would just, you know, live in smaller villages and we would have our village friends and then some, you know, great poets and other people, they would travel by foot and go to, you know, gradually to different villages. But most of the people would just more or less stay within their little society. And how many would die by car accidents and airplane accidents and hijackings? So anyway, now we’re in a different world. But at least if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, if you become spiritually strong, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then you will gain that inner strength to take you over all these difficulties. Your pain is due to attachment, due to material identification. And that you can’t artificially ignore it. It’s natural. It’s a natural sentiment that one has. But if you raise your consciousness to the higher level.

Then you will automatically become immune from that kind of suffering. And you will have your compassion will take a more mature form based upon real knowledge. Rather than just on some superficial attachment due to some bodily conception of life.

My aunt, her mother, has been considered in our family one of the more spiritual members of the family. And were talking about my cousin’s death. And she said that she believed that God gives man free will. And in that free will man makes mistakes. And that my cousin’s death was not in God’s plan. And I thought, well, does she think that God just sort of turned his.

Back and then he turned around and.

Went, oh no, that wasn’t supposed to happen. But I had to think, well, she’s just devastated right now too. She’s not really seeing what it is. And we’re all real attached to her body being there.

So now you should chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and study the Bhagavad Gītā. Then you will be able to explain to your other relatives a higher point of view. You can listen to the classes that they give here. And you will be able to understand what is the body and what is the soul. What is the law of karma? What is the will of God. You will see that everything is regulated by laws. Nothing is just by accident. Do you have a question? Yes, sir. I am. I am very happy to be here. What about behind you? Do you have a question? Are you happy to be here? Yes.

In Titania Church there’s a nice story about sex.

Ego pals.

I was wondering if Sex Gopal is.

Still being worshiped today. Oh yes. What temple or where? In the Sakshi Gopal temple. Where is that? That’s about five miles from Jagannathpur. Five or seven or 12. Just a little bit outside Jagannathpur. You can. You can have a Darshan. That’s actually go far. If you go with devotee, then I can. Beautiful dude.

He’s very tall, isn’t he?

Quite tall. I have only seen him once. It’s just time to see him again. Next time I go. Your friend is all right. Hate.

Hate God.

You know.

Sometimes I I feel so frightened of the material world.

Should. You should feel frightened of the material world. It’s very frightening.

I get so frightened and so I start smoking cigarettes.

No, you should choke. Cigarette. will not bring the. The Indians.

See, I am a little. I am a little mixed up, you know, I can’t seem to function out there.

Right.

You know.

Well said anyone who’s a gentleman, a gentle woman, that they can’t function in the material world. This is not a place for gentlemen or gentlewomen, for ladies and gentlemen. This is not that kind of place. It’s like a jungle. So anyone who is of a gentle nature, you say, won’t actually fit into this world. Then you have to. You will actually fit into the spiritual world where all people are very gentle and very compassionate and loving with each other and this world. The. Those things that are more conspicuous by their absence than by their presence. Do you have a question, Doctor Roland? Well, yeah.

I was always wondering how. I know it’s real intricate, but I read a lot in the Bhagavad Gītā about karma. I was wondering how it is that it seems in this life you do things that immediately come back and kick you in the head. And how is it. I have also heard, and I am not so sure I have read this, but that you. Well, I have read it all.

I am sure.

I have read that what you do in this life determines what happens to you in your next life. Does that mean the activity? Does that mean, like, if I shoot a man in this life, he’s gonna. I am gonna have to come back and he’s gonna have to shoot me or can it take another form of punishment or reaction?

When you’re doing this life, everything you do, you get the reaction. Some reactions, there’s seven different layers, and each of the layers have the different time Spanish. So sometimes you do an activity and the reaction will come right back. Or it may come back in two births, one birth or four births, even up to 100 births. And then the reactions come back in seven different layers. Some are immediately manifesting, some are finished. Some are just about just starting to come up. Some are just about to come up. Some are just a level before that. Some are just in a seed stage. And some are completely dormant. They’re there, but they’re not near manifestation yet. So one has to be just like, you may have a problem. Suddenly a problem comes up.

It’s just like a simple reaction or karmic reaction that’s coming from the past. So what you do in this lifetime is. will create within you certain desires. And those desires will dictate what your next birth will be. Sometimes a scientist may be a scientist birth after birth for 8, 9, 10 births in a row. Because he’s researching a particular field, he’s really focused onto that particular field. And when he dies, he’s still completely wrapped up in his research. And so again, he takes birth to scientist. And in his next life he can pick up scientific things very quickly. And practically he takes off almost where he left off. Musicians. It’s the same way sometimes artists. Prabhupāda said that Ravi Shankar has been playing sitar for nine births. This is his ninth birth.

And that’s why he’s able to play the sitar so well as he is. You know, of course, if he continues acting the way he is now, I can’t say where his next person. But he does chant a little Hare Kṛṣṇa oftener. So maybe he has to. So in the same way, if you concentrate on Kṛṣṇa during your life, then you go to Kṛṣṇa, because your desires will be focused on Kṛṣṇa. If you’re always thinking in one particular material designation, then the chances are that you will come back because of attachments to that designation. You will be born in a certain family or a certain environment where you will be able to take up that kind of work again.

So can you assume that you have taken up something in this life, You have probably done it before, or could it actually be the first time you start?

Can’t say. It can’t be. If you excel very naturally in something without much effort, then that would tend to be more of an indication that you had previous habit with that in the past. If you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the concepts seem to thin you very easily, or you’re able to very quickly pick up on the different things. But that would show that in a previous life you have also had some type of practice with yoga, with spiritual life. Some people, they can’t understand anything. And they say, what is this stuff? I don’t understand anything. You’re talking about how can you be a soul? How can you feed a soul if it doesn’t have a body? Things like, they know people, they can’t just figure it out. They don’t understand that if a spirit doesn’t have to eat, physical, this is a machine.

So we have to breathe air and eat and drink water. Because this physical body is a machine of the material nature that requires various inputs. But then our mental body has different needs. Those needs we get when we sleep and we dream. Because we feel very restricted in this body. Our mind is not. So when we dream, then the mind goes off and we get a chance to be a little bit free for a while and that refreshes it. Then we come back in the body and we go through another grueling day. We’re so mentally tired, we have to sleep at night. But then the spirit, that’s completely the us. We are locked up in this body, in this mind, and we don’t get any relief.

Therefore we’re always pushing more where is satisfaction and that the spirit, the mind and the body fully gets satisfied by chanting, by serving Kaasadevi, Bhagavati, Bhakti yoga, Janaya Mahe tukam. That our self becomes completely satisfied by rendering causeless and uninterrupted devotional service to the supreme person. So by practicing uninterrupted and causeless devotional service without any material motive, then we become completely satisfied. That is food for the soul. Taking the Kṛṣṇa prashana, serving Kṛṣṇa. So we shouldn’t starve our soul any longer. If we starve ourselves spiritually, naturally we will be dissatisfied. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant to end that starvation. And when that the soul, the self, is satisfied, then automatically the mind and the body are also satisfied.

I hear a lot of variations too, of what is. Always something bewilders me. It’s all these different devotees telling me different things that are going to happen. Like you bloop at a certain time, you do so much. You’re going to go here and you’re going to go there and this and that. You might go to the heavenly planets. In 10,000 years you come back and the movement won’t be here. And all this stuff, what is, you.

Know, just like I am like where am I going?

You know, let’s just say for the sake of whatever that I maintain contact with devotees. But I don’t completely submit. I thought, you know, I followed him.

That someone discussed today in the Vyaras Pūjā ceremony that if you don’t have a spiritual master, your destination is unknown.

Sounds pretty crucial.

If you don’t have a spiritual master, then the destination is not who’s covering for you. And if one has a bona fide spiritual master, then anyone can say that, oh, this is where he’s destined. If one has an unborna fide spiritual master, then he can also say where he’s destined to go. But one needs a spiritual master, bona fide spiritual master. And then that is the basic contract that he’s guaranteeing to take one back to the spiritual world. All you have to do is follow the medicine and the treatment and the diet that he gives. Otherwise then the whole burden is on the individual. So if he gives the contact with devotees and stuff, then he may be able to. He will be. And whatever amount he’s practicing, he doesn’t lose for that. But it just doesn’t guarantee that he will get back to Godhead.

He gets the credit, but it’s still keeping him in. It may not be enough credit. Śrīla Prabhupāda gave the example of going to school but not being registered in the university, going to the classes but not being actually enrolled. You can get some information, but ultimately. So you can’t get a degree, you can’t graduate unless you’re enrolled in the university. If you’re enrolled, you can sit for the exam and get your degree. If you just want to sit in a class, they may allow you with the permission of the teacher.

So yes, what about they say not they, but in the scripture it says that if you generate Kṛṣṇa once, you can relieve so many sins, more sins you can even commit, or as many sins as you permitted volumes of sins.

Yes.

So if you channel Kṛṣṇa with or without a spiritual master.

If one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa offenselessly, then that effect is there that destroys or can destroy more sins than what a person can perform. But then we see people are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa day after day. But some people, they don’t make advancement because at the same time as they’re chanting, they don’t have a spiritual master. They’re committing offenses. And one has to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa at the same time. Avoid offenses. Offenses have a neutralizing effect against chanting. So those aren’t exaggerations of the scripture. Those aren’t exaggerations of the Holy Name. The Holy Name has those potentials. But when the Holy Name will manifest that’s up to the Holy Name’s own independent choice. And he can manifest that much mercy just by one time shouting Hare Kṛṣṇa and complete surrender to Kṛṣṇa maybe can be enough to completely deliver one to Kṛṣṇa.

One time if someone just yells out to Kṛṣṇa and says also that you just stub your toe or you hit yourself and suddenly you crawl out Kṛṣṇa, that may be enough to give you liberation. So the scripture is just describing the depth. Because it has happened that just by that people have become liberated. But then there may be some circumstances where people did that. They stubbed their toe and said Hare Kṛṣṇa, but they were committing Other offenses to vaiavas or to something else. And so as a result, those effects are delayed in the future they may reap, but. But it may be after millions of births or hundreds or tens or whatever. So that’s why one has to have a spiritual master to know how to avoid committing offenses. As I mentioned that I told the story last time about Gadadhar meeting his guru.

How he doubted his guru and he had committed some offenses in the mind. And then he thought, the only way I can overcome these offenses is by becoming his disciple. That time wasn’t initiated. It was just a Vaishnava. But he had doubted that he was a pure vaiava pundit virginity, because he was dressed so opulently. And then when he saw actually how attached the Pundaric Vijini was to Kṛṣṇa, when Mukunda starts thinking about Yaśodā and Putana, how Kṛṣṇa killed Putana but then gave her the position as his own mother out of his compassion. And when heard that, he started tearing off his clothes and becoming completely overwhelmed in separation for Kṛṣṇa. That even someone came to kill Kṛṣṇa by putting poison on her breast.

Because Kṛṣṇa sucked her breast, sucked her life out, killed her, but because she had anyway offered her breast as a mother, even was covered with deadly poison, he accepted that there was some type of a service attitude there. And out of that causeless mercy, he gave her liberation and gave her a position in the spiritual sky as a mother. So when Kundarik was meditating on those things, as Makunda was singing, he became filled with such ecstasy and such love for Kṛṣṇa, compassion, inconceivable qualities that he was just tearing himself. And he became completely mad in separation for Kṛṣṇa, thinking how worthless he was for not having any devotion for such a master who even someone wants to kill him because of, instead of a slight service, he elevates that person to the highest liberation. Then Gadadhar felt that I was doubting this person.

I committed so many offenses by doubting him that now my spiritual life will be hampered. So then he thought the only solution is to take initiation from it. Because the Guru is so tolerant that the disciple can commit so many offenses. And the guru by nature, just like a mother, doesn’t consider so many things that the baby does just because it’s his baby, it’s the mother’s baby. So in the same way, the Guru is very tolerant when it comes to disciples. While for people that aren’t disciples, I mean they commit some offense, then you know, they don’t have the same relationship. So Gadargarh thought that I should become a disciple. This would be a way to avoid my offense. So when one has a spiritual master, then the spiritual master absolves one from so many offenses and protects one.

But nonetheless, whatever one’s doing, it’s only a question of delay. Unless there’s a very serious Vaishnava parad. Then Lord Caitanya Sadh pulls the root out and the leaves die from the devotional creeper. But apart from that, the other type of material desires and things that come up in the heart while one’s chanting, they make the cost. It makes the spiritual growth stunted. It stops it because of the other things that are growing there, but doesn’t actually kill the plant. It can eventually completely smother it, but that takes a long time. But in offense, pulls it out by the root. Offensive against pure Vaishnavas. A serious offense. Of course, It.

(Side B of the Cassette)

They may be purified from sins, but then it’s like it’s described, like the bathing of the elephant. And as soon as they chant, get purified immediately, they light up the cigarettes.

And they start eating nonsense and doing nonsense. So it’s like taking a bath and.

Going back out and throwing mud on yourself again.

Like the elephants, they scrub their body in the river.

They come out and with their trunk.

They pick up dust.

And the first thing they do, they throw it all over their body. Have you ever seen even you can see probably here. I don’t know if they have dust.

In these zoos, huh? They do. They do.

So you will see the same thing here. If the elephant goes in the water and washes, you will see when he comes out of, there’s no dust all over himself or herself as the case.

See?

So somebody either commits the offense against the Vaishnava, or has those finally smothered the creeper. What does he do in either those cases?

If you commit an offense against the Vaishnava, somehow you have to get forgiven by the Vaishnava whom you offended. And then if you have the problem.

Of weeds in all these cases, if.

You have a spiritual master, you go to him and he advises how one.

Can avoid for the weeds.

Lord Caitani recommends that we have to.

Cut the weeds to pull the weeds.

Out from the root. So sometimes it’s very hard, just like.

To pull out the weeds from your own self. So the spiritual master is also expert in pulling out weeds.

But sometimes it has to be done gradually or carefully because of the amount of. If the roots are really firmly entrenched in there, then you don’t want to, you know, but ultimately they have to be pulled out. Prabhupāda called it like the boil. You have to squeeze the pus out of the boil when it’s ripe. If you don’t do it, that time.

Just blow on won’t solve it.

It may feel like a cool breeze, but the ultimate thing, you have to.

Pull out the poison.

So if there’s actual poison there, then to be merciful or, you know, it’s not real mercy to just let the poison fester, one has to take it out.

Also. Jaipad, you’re explaining to Eleanor about the six processes of devotional service. Can you just briefly explain about what it means to be straightforward into ordinary.

Straightforward, not to be duplicious.

To be honest.

Not to do weird kind of business deals which are based upon integrate illegal or intriguing things, to be straightforward with the other. That doesn’t mean that you tell the truth if it’s unpleasant sometimes.

If it’s unpleasant.

Sometimes you have to.

Say the truth even though it’s unpleasant.

But it’s to be done in a.

Way which, if it has to be, if an unpleasant thing has to be.

Said, if it doesn’t have to be said, then one doesn’t say it.

But if it has to be said, then it’s said it in. In such a way that it’s as palatable as possible.

But one doesn’t neglect to tell the.

Truth in terms of being straightforward in dealings.

Just like someone may have some Māyā.

Or some problem in the mind, and.

Then so in approaching devotees to get the solution for that, actually one doesn’t actually reveal the mind. One, instead of actually telling what’s the real problem, will put on some type.

Of a false facade that actually I am not the one that’s fault, it’s the other person. It’s a common happening in material dealings.

Just like maybe someone is actually breaking.

A regulative principle, but at the same time it’s evident that their devotional services is hampered.

But when someone asks them if there’s.

Any difficulties in their spiritual life, they say, no, there’s no difficulties. Or I say, yes, there’s a difficulty. And then they say some other thing which is actually just not the real problem. Even they may know the real problem.

But they’re embarrassed to actually say it.

Or they don’t want to.

And so as a result, because they’re.

Living in a kind of a duplicious situation, then they don’t actually make advancement. It’s a stumbling block. So therefore one is recommended that in dealing in the spiritual platform, one has to be very honest with himself and with the other senior vaiavas, especially the spiritual master, what the actual problems are. Otherwise it can be an impediment. Just like if you go to the doctor and he says, well, what’s wrong?

And you don’t tell him, or you.

Tell him something else, then he will give you the wrong medicine. So what do they say? You always have to tell the truth to your doctor. Like that you have to tell the truth to the spiritual master. Be truthful to yourself to Kṛṣṇa.

So.

We were discussing about taking rest. So there’s still enough time to catch enough rest. Going to the morning program tomorrow.

Something happened to me where I live. I had fixed a little altar, you know, with Christmas pictures on it. And one day I didn’t. In fact, I came here, you know, one evening. And that Evening. And some people took Kṛṣṇa’s picture and just destroyed my altar. And it made me very angry, you know, it made me angry with Kṛṣṇa because he didn’t protect him, you know.

That’S not Kṛṣṇa’s duty.

That’s your duty, you know.

It’s your duty to protect.

When you take the little deity of Kṛṣṇa, he puts himself in your care, you see. So it’s your duty to protect Kṛṣṇa and the higher spiritual sense. Kṛṣṇa protects his devotees. But when Kṛṣṇa is worshipped in his.

Deity form, then he’s.

You know, sometimes the demons think, well, I will just destroy the deity of Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will be dead.

You see, it’s not like Kṛṣṇa, of.

Course, is all pervasive. He’s everywhere.

He’s in the spiritual world. He’s in our heart. He also appears in the form of the deity. But if you break the deity, doesn’t mean you have broken Kṛṣṇa. You see, they’re just committing a spiritual offense. But as a devotee, we will protect the deity. We will do our utmost to keep the deity in a very safe place. But Kṛṣṇa, he cannot ever be destroyed.

I know that. I know that. But when I had my little altar, I felt Kṛṣṇa.

So we should make another altar. But this time put it in a safer place. Put it maybe in a, like, what’s your name, Mother? Your way Gene. In a. In a box. I did maybe put it in a safer. But you know, some kind of nice solid box.

But is that off the offense? Is that my offense?

Not directly, unless it was due to some negligence.

It was done behind my back.

Yes, it’s not directly an offense unless it’s due to your own. You know, Sometimes it happens india, people steal the deity because it’s made out of some valuable material. And of course the devotees would think that this was due to. Because I committed some offense. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has left me or Rādhā Rani has left me or something. Because I was not taking actual proper care of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he used this means of leaving me. So the devotee takes it quite seriously and tries utmost, of course, to regain the deity. But sometimes it happens that doesn’t. Then one will reinstall a deity or will set up another worship. But be very careful that thinking that it was possibly due to my own negligence or my own, some mistake I was making. I wasn’t dealing with Kṛṣṇa that sincerely. Therefore he left me.

Well, I think Kṛṣṇa has left me because I made several offenses and well, anyway, I love fear and I am very frightened.

So Lord Chaitanya or Jagannath These deities are very merciful, you see, sometimes Kṛṣṇa Balagoprishna, little babies, you know, sometimes take the candy away from the baby cries. Sometimes they’re a little sensitive. And Rādhākṛṣṇa worship is on a level of more pure love. One has to be very sincere in worshiping Rādhākṛṣṇa in that way. But Jagannath and Nitāi gore very compassionate to their devotees, so they take much less offense. If one worships Lord Caitanya, for instance, then that’s better for beginners. But even advanced devotees worship Lord Caitanya. But especially when one is just beginning, then in case there’s a few mistakes Lord Caitanya forgives. He doesn’t take it very seriously. Well, Rādhākṛṣṇa is a more advanced platform.

Well, that’s the reason why I am suffering too, is because, you know, there’s a bondage between, you know, the material world and the spiritual world. You know, in other words, like on the fence and writing the Should I do this?

Well, there’s pulling. One is being pulled from the material world not to surrender to God. That’s called the illusory power or the conditioning power of Māyā. Illusory energy. So that’s there. But if one clings to Lord Caitani, if one clings to the spiritual master, then one can that power. Kṛṣṇa’s power to pull you out of illusion is much more than the power of staying in illusion. When you’re in the ocean and then the rope is handed down, all you have to do is hold on to it. In this sense, Kṛṣṇa is reaching down. All we have to do is reach up in our states, whether I should reach up or not. If we do actually reach up and hold on, then Kṛṣṇa will pull us out. But we’re hesitating to reach out.

And as a result, then we’re being tossed in the waves and we’re suffering.

I can feel this suffering.

So Kṛṣṇa is there with his hand out. It’s just up to you to take it or not.

I don’t know how to take it.

Like chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, eating Kṛṣṇa prasadam and associating with devotees this way book where.

It says, surely you will come to me. And I guess Kṛṣṇa was pleading for me to come.

Then.

I am going through a terrible trouble.

So it’s a little struggle to be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

But then it’s one struggle.

And then after that you don’t have to struggle anymore. But in this material world, it’s a.

Struggle every life after life after life. So it’s better even if it’s a little struggle. It’s glorious to struggle to be God conscious, to be Kṛṣṇa conscious. But the struggle of just maintaining in this material world, which everyone has to do anyway. What’s glorious about that? What’s glorious about the rat running around in the wheel? It’s also struggling, but it’s struggling just in the elu that’s not getting anywhere. When you’re actually struggling to get out of this conditional life, that struggle is glorious.

So we want.

There’s a little struggle involved in being Kṛṣṇa conscious. Especially when one is in the attached state. When one is severing the different attachments, then it’s like pulling off band aids, you know, hurts, but you know, you can’t leave it on forever. You have to. So there’s this. So that’s like a little bit of feeling of pain. But actually after that, then it’s cured. It’s like pushing the boil, you know, the poison comes out and it’s healed. It’s all right. So we have these diseases, we have these attachments, we have these things. So to get out of the disease condition is a little bit of a stage struggle. But then we’re healthy. And Kṛṣṇa says, once you get spiritually completely healthy, you don’t again come back again. Natnuvanti Mahatmana, San Siddhi, Parama, Gatha.

So that’s what you should aim for.

Just, you know how these young people, they have a long life, they have to go a long way, possibly before the end of their life. But an older person, in one sense, all they have to do is hold out for a few years. And then if they’re Kṛṣṇa conscious, when they leave the body, then they are transferred back to Kṛṣṇa. But for a young person has to go through so many different changes. Yet in the natural course, if they live 70 or 80 years, then they have to go through 50 or 40 years of various changes before they can leave their body. We don’t advocate for suicide.

That’s crossed my mind.

I will tell you.

Because then one can become a ghost, a body, a mental body without a gross body. That’s a hellish existence. What happens when one that doesn’t sleep at night?

One gets very tired.